Wednesday, November 20, 2013

Mrs. Done by Forty Negotiates Abroad...

One of the things I am getting used to here in Peru is being completely reliant on Mrs. Done by Forty. She's been to Peru several times before, each time visiting for a few months, at least. So she knows the culture, she knows where to go and how to avoid getting run over while getting there, and, most importantly, she knows the language. Sadly, I can barely put together a full thought in Spanish. But since she is very white with red hair and I am half-Filipino (and pass for a Peruvian at first glance), we have this ongoing confusing situation that happens. Everyone we interact with thinks that I'm the native speaker, and just starts talking to me in Spanish. It isn't until I stare back at them blankly and say, "¿Que?", and Mrs. Done by Forty starts talking in fluent Spanish, that they realize which one of us they need to talk to. Even if Mrs. Done by Forty starts speaking to someone in Spanish, they will just start talking to me as if I am the one who will understand them. It's kind of our ongoing joke now. Just yesterday when we were walking by a movie theater, some guy stopped me and asked me if this was the right line for "Thor". It was not a phrase I had practiced, so I had no idea what was going on...luckily Mrs. Done by Forty saved me again. (And yes, we did go to see Thor in 3D. Only 15 Soles..or $5.30.)

Today I have just a story today about a negotiation Mrs. Done by Forty tried here at the local UPS office. I mentioned earlier that she had to ship a few boxes of plant and soil samples for an article she is working on. The process of how to do this, burdened with permits from different countries and various forms that need to be included in the boxes and brought to the shipper, as well as finding someone locally to actually do so, has delayed the shipment for over a year. One of the reasons we wanted to come to Lima was to pick up the boxes from the home they've been sitting in, and to finally put this problem to bed.

There was some anxiety over the whole endeavor though. If we couldn't successfully ship the boxes due to paperwork being needed from some local government office or another, we were in a bad spot, as we no longer had a place to store them. (After a year of storage at this woman's house, we couldn't go to that well again.) And we couldn't bring them with us to Ecuador, either: if we couldn't ship them to the US we wouldn't be able to bring them across the Ecuadorian border, either. It was make or break time.

So yesterday we repacked the boxes, went to an internet cafe to print out all the various paperwork we needed, and hailed a cab to head over to San Ysidro: the business district in Lima and the location of the only UPS office in the city. When we arrived, the UPS workers opened two huge metal gates to let us in, and asked Mrs. Done by Forty for her passport when we arrived. (Apparently I look enough like a local that the workers weren't interested in seeing mine.) We lugged the boxes into the UPS office and saw three women working the front desk.

My wife came in and started explaining to the clerk that she needed to ship these plant and soil samples to the US, and wanted to charge them to a university UPS account. Right off the bat, they got off on the wrong foot. The clerk was saying we needed a print out from the University's account, which we didn't have, so we'd have to pay out of pocket. Mrs. Done by Forty was explaining that wasn't actually needed, and they started going around and around on the issue of payment before we even got to the real issues of permits, paperwork, etc.

Now, I wasn't actually understanding a lot of the conversation, but the tone was pretty clearly combative. At a break in the conversation I kind of whispered to my wife, "Remember to be nice. She's the gatekeeper. It'll go easier if she's on your side. Don't worry about the money...we just need them shipped."

And, readers, Mrs. Done by Forty totally flipped the switch. She turned on the charm, conceded on the payment issue, and totally won over the woman she was just arguing with. She asked her name and complimented on how nice it sounded, even mentioning it would be a cute name for our future daughter. Mrs. Done by Forty was asking questions about whether she liked working here, where to go in Lima, and, by the way, was everything in order with the paperwork? Not being able to add much to the conversation, I just smiled a lot and offered the use of the tape and scissors I had during the packing process, via a series of silent pantomimes.

After ten minutes, the clerk was smiling and helpful and on our side. Mrs. Done by Forth had gained an advocate, which really came in handy since a supervisor had to come out and approve all the paperwork before we could ship. The supervisor was opening the boxes and looking at samples, and the whole while our new friend, the clerk, was advocating for us...explaining that we had what we needed, everything was in order.

Long story short, I doubt we'd have gotten past the supervisor without this woman being on our side. There was an invoice form that we had in the wrong format. But, rather than sending us away, our clerk said we could just email it to her and she'd be sure to print it out and ship it with our boxes the next day.

Finally, we came to the issue of price. After weighing out the boxes she gave us the damage.

"Seiscientios ochenta."

"Dolares?!?"

"Si, dolares."

The missus then translated to me that this meant $680...dollars, not Soles. I asked if she'd be comfortable negotiating a bit, and she gave it a shot. Mrs. Done by Forty just nicely asked for a discount, noting that she was a university student, and she was planning on being able to use the university's account instead of paying out of pocket. Our clerk said she'd see what she could do, and offered a 10% discount. We were over the moon at that price, since $68 dollars is enough for us to cover all our meals for two days here. We both thanked her profusely over and over again.

And then, when the bill came, we saw it was only for $530. Instead of just $68, our new friend had taken $150 off the bill (more than a 22% discount). Mrs. Done by Forty saved us a small fortune in spending money here. Even though this wasn't a traditional negotiation of passing prices back and forth, I think it shows how simply finding the courage to ask for a discount, and being overly nice, can help a lot. Even when dealing with a corporation, whose prices you might normally think as fixed, it helps to smile and simply ask to pay less.

And readers, I can't tell you how proud I am of Mrs. Done by Forty. She normally passes those sort of price discussions to me and I'm usually all too happy to take the reigns. But being in a country in which I can say just a few dozen phrases has forced me to lean on my wife like I never have before, and it's proving to an eye opening experience. It's difficult and even a bit frustrating at times, since I fumble over simple conversations with waiters and clerks. But seeing my wife interacting with everyone here so naturally is truly awesome. It makes my heart smile, and I know I am in good hands.

Talk to you soon.

29 comments:

  1. OK, I am totally laughing at the picture of people addressing you in Spanish when it's your wife who is the fluent speaker. As I fair skinned redhead living in a neighborhood filled mostly with recent Mexican immigrants, I'm often in a similar situation. I wouldn't consider myself fluent by a long shot (I don't think you can really achieve fluency until you live a language day in and day out) but I've studied Spanish for more than 20 years and can hold my own in most conversations.

    So a while back I had to have the roof replaced after a bad hailstorm. The workers were all from Mexico and only one spoke any English. There was this long discussion about whether they could back the truck in over the lawn so they could just dump the shingles directly into it or not, and whether the truck would fit between the fence and the big tree in the yard, and would it piss me off if they drove it on the lawn, yadda, yadda, yadda... They were going back and forth and back and forth, so I finally just blurted out "Si cabe está bien. A mi no me importa el césped porque ya está muerto." They were totally floored! It's sorta like being a stealth infiltrator or something! :-)

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    1. Ha! My wife loves doing the same thing. We joke that we're blowing the doors off of their perceptions of Americans when she does that. The guy who looks like a Limeno can't speak a lick of Spanish, but the redhead can...

      My wife checked out your blog last night too and she likes it!

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  2. Great story - not only the fun part with you going as a native, but also that about the negotiation part and (again) the being nice with people around. I really have to try this here in Romania and see how it goes as I am pretty sure that it wouldn't work as well. But then again, the state employees here are never treated nicely, so it might come as a shock for them too :))

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    1. Hi C,

      Yeah, you never know when there's room on price. For people who aren't that comfortable with negotiation, just getting comfortable with asking "Can we get a discount on that?" will probably yield good results. But yeah, being nice really helps the odds, too. :)

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  3. I remember your post about the possibilities of moving and living in Peru to which I agreed judging by how you described the place. Now another thought came to mind: I must also learn how to speak Spanish. Mrs. DBF amazes me!

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    1. You're so sweet, Jen. That comment is going to make her day.

      I agree: Mrs DBF is amazing. I am the luckiest.

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  4. Man, you guys are like jiu-jitsu negotiation warriors! It's pretty awesome that your wife was able to flip the script like that. I've been in customer service situations like that where the other person is just being obstinate and it's really hard to keep your cool. It's even harder to totally switch demeanors once you've been locked in it for a while. But kindness really does go a long way.

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    1. The missus was the only warrior, but I'm happy to lug around her weapons and help out. :)

      I do think "re-setting" is a tricky thing and does take a bit of luck/skill. Sometimes there's just no turning it around.

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  5. I had a feeling my comment didn't show up the first time. In a nutshell I said you sound so darn proud of your wife!

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    1. Sorry that it deleted your comment, Tonya. My complete lack of techie skills limits what I can do to help, other than to say I'm sorry!

      I'm totally proud of and am in awe of my wife.

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  6. Aw, that's great that you encouraged your wife to go for it! I know I'd feel better having someone by my side during negotiations. I'm terribly shy, so I normally pass off the asking, too. That's awesome that you were able to end up with such a great deal as well.

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    1. Thanks, EM! That somewhat uniquely American trait of being nervous to negotiate a discount is hard to get over. I deal with it myself all the time, since I know I'm breaking social norms when I ask for a discount at the register, with a clerk, etc.

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  7. I am not a world traveler, but I have found on my several trips to Mexico that almost everything is negotiable. Smiling a lot, being friendly, and respectful will go a long way toward getting what you want. Sounds like the Peruvian culture is not that much different.

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    1. Hi Bryce. That's a pretty apt comparison. Parts of Lima felt a lot like Mexico...cool and with tons of history, but a little gritty and with an edge, too.

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  8. This also makes me smile. A great story for my day. You need to start acting like you understand perfectly well, but that you're too cool to speak with anyone, so you hired a beautiful white woman to speak for you. Haha! Keep kickin' ass down there.

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    1. Hilarious. I can just see Mr DB40 with his nose in the air, pantomiming being above such a lowly interaction. Almost like a silent Peruvian Godfather.

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    2. @ MSquared: Ha! I totally ought to have played it off like that. Unfortunately, I don't have the fancy digs to pull of the persona of a wealthy Limeno who's hired a white woman to do my bidding...

      @ Emily: I think you just bought me a chance to rewatch the Godfather with the missus. Thanks!

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  9. Excellent job, Mrs. DbF!! I agree being kinder versus the alternative gets people's buy-ins more...and that's quite the significant savings from the original price! AND it was in another language! Mrs. DbF is pretty much a negotiating rockstar in my book. ;)

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    1. Anna,

      That's exactly my impression. The whole time this was going on, it was like I was seeing my wife for the first time again. I mean, who convinces an initially combative employee to get on their side AND gets a discount out of the deal, all in a second language?

      I don't deserve such a person in my life, but I'll take her.

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  10. being nice always works! I got a second monitor for my work station without having to ask the IT guy because I had mentioned it in passing to him a few months ago. I'm always nice to the guy and give props about him to our head boss. Always be nice to the "gatekeeper" as you say, you never know when you'll need their help!

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    1. That's a great story, Tara. There are long term benefits from building up people around us. It's an investment in social capital that, like you noted, just about always pays off.

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  11. Pretty cool that Mrs. DB40 was able to get a good discount. You guys are both awesome negotiators! Funny that everyone assumes you speak Spanish. A few times that I've tried to speak Spanish, sometimes they'll speak broken English to me figuring their broken English is better than my broken Spanish. But I think I've improved a lot. I'm hoping you pick up some Spanish while in Peru...no better way to learn than by practicing.

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    1. Andrew,
      I'm always hoping that the people here are figuring that English ought to be the language to work our broken conversation through, but so far, it's the exception rather than the rule. I'm just glad my wife's here. :)

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  12. I loved reading this post about price negotiations and was pleasantly amused at how simple it is to get your way. Just reading about all the paperwork gave me a headache and I felt sorry for you guys but after seeing how the not-so-helpful lady at UPS became your best buddy, just made me smile. Kudos to your wife for acting so well!!

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    1. Hi fehmeen,

      Thanks for the kind words. I'm always a little amazed at how easily things go once you get someone on your side. The bureaucratic red tape, the ambiguous instructions...all of it seems to go pretty easily once the gatekeeper or SME is your advocate. The best bit is that they really do want to help you.

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  13. Agreed, a fabulous story - though if I was your wife, and I was on 'cranky' I'm not sure I could switch to 'nice as pie'! But it seemed to work so well! I am almost always nice and apologetic when in foreign countries though, which can help get some love.

    I love that everyone assumes you're a local, that could be very fun indeed!

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    1. Hi Sarah,

      The confusion is also happening here in Ecuador, for better or worse. Though at 5'10", I somehow stand out as a tall guy here (which is great), and I think that signals that I'm not a native. In Lima, I'm pretty average height-wise.

      I'll be sure to tell my wife your kind words. She's the best...as always, I am in awe.

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  14. Wow- great work, both of you!! I'm loving hearing about your experiences here, DB40. A great peek into the world of international travel for me. :-)

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    1. Thanks, Laurie! I had some anxiety about just writing about our goings-on here in South America, and wasn't sure if it would fly on a personal finance blog. I appreciate the encouragement!

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