tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post4519413608394275751..comments2024-03-27T09:17:51.095-07:00Comments on Done by Forty: Hotel Soaps and ExternalitiesDone By Fortyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-12582850692007893712019-04-28T06:28:32.794-07:002019-04-28T06:28:32.794-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Eliza Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02649631832476790065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-90224331921613329832015-05-23T01:02:27.038-07:002015-05-23T01:02:27.038-07:00NiceNiceObuj balokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02761294093232455191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-72344786949376992042014-07-29T00:26:08.875-07:002014-07-29T00:26:08.875-07:00You sound just like me... it's not really stea...You sound just like me... it's not really stealing. The hotels provide these amenities for your use and they know people take these items home. I just came back from Japan and have bags full of shampoo, soaps, razors, combs and maybe 20 pairs of slippers. Call me cheap but when a hotel offers you some premium soaps etc, I take them and for weeks and months after my trip when I use the items I can recall fond memories of my trip.DivHuthttp://divhut.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-2956101653218577202014-06-25T08:26:36.249-07:002014-06-25T08:26:36.249-07:00Meh, whatever. I don't see the point in furthe...Meh, whatever. I don't see the point in further debating a nit. The hotel soap example is just a lead in to the idea that there are sometimes externalities in the things we buy. If you don't like that example, there are others to pick from.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-31797044769730492852014-06-25T04:25:14.295-07:002014-06-25T04:25:14.295-07:00I'm not arguing for a perfectly efficient mark...I'm not arguing for a perfectly efficient market. A hotel doesn't have to guess who will or won't use shampoo and adjust their costs as they go and leave it up to chance. Its calculated in.<br /><br />Everyone is charged for a bottle of shampoo if they use it or not.<br />The heavy users are paying for their costs in that the nightly rent covers their costs.<br />The light users are giving extra profit to a company. <br />Pulling Myself Uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03676667648941966869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-85807511333678426212014-06-23T09:02:21.935-07:002014-06-23T09:02:21.935-07:00I totally take the shampoo and conditioner when I&...I totally take the shampoo and conditioner when I'm at hotels, assuming I like the scent. Even if I don't like the conditioner, I use it in lieu of shaving cream. :) <br /><br />As for the investing point... this is something that I'm starting to struggle with myself. When we had a pension information session at work, one of the more (uh, how do I say this nicely) granola young professors asked if there were more ethical options. And basically the presenter said that you're stuck with GICs and money market within their scheme because then it moves into more active-investing, which costs more and isn't part of the plan. <br /><br />I don't think owning a company's stock as part of an index fund is really the same as outwardly supporting them, but it does make that contradiction that is sometimes hard to reconcile. Alicia @ Financial Diffractionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05643373008918810105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-4113673101426630882014-06-22T14:26:04.461-07:002014-06-22T14:26:04.461-07:00Such thoughtful responses to a weighty question.
...Such thoughtful responses to a weighty question. <br /><br />My husband and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum in this realm, so I am frequently aware of it. We also recently spend 8 days in a hotel. I would feel a bit guilty about purposefully squirreling away toiletries (but moreso I would ask if it's really worth it to have to deal with all those tiny bottles? I mean V05 is like $0.75?). <br /><br />The other Capito is wired differently. We picked up some bottles of our favorite rum at the Costco and my hubby wrapped them in a hotel towel to keep them safe in our luggage. <br /><br />I undermined his convenient thievery by paying $12 for a roll of bubble wrap and secretly re-wrapping the bottles before we left. It's all about what matters to you. Karma can be rewarding, or depriving.Em Capito, LCSWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07690949620210399390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-59851309867245535112014-06-22T13:49:49.043-07:002014-06-22T13:49:49.043-07:00Thanks for the recommendation, Stefanie! I boycott...Thanks for the recommendation, Stefanie! I boycotted Walmart for over a decade, but then when I blew a tire in the middle of nowhere AZ on a Sunday, and all the chains were closed....Walmart's Auto Center saved my bacon.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-26091162886808658022014-06-22T13:48:51.424-07:002014-06-22T13:48:51.424-07:00I'm in the same boat at the moment, Bryce. I&#...I'm in the same boat at the moment, Bryce. I'll try to impact the market with my choices in products I buy, rather than the investments I buy.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-5520409733473111602014-06-22T13:47:42.630-07:002014-06-22T13:47:42.630-07:00I don't agree with your analysis. Costs can...I don't agree with your analysis. Costs can't always be perfectly anticipated by a business. If customers in 2014 increase their consumption dramatically, when compared to past customers, then FUTURE customers will bear those additional costs in increased prices. Even if customers collectively pay for their collective consumption, light users end up subsidizing the costs of excessive users. That all goes to say that people who over-consume on "free" items (note the quotes) disproportionately pass on those costs to other people. <br /><br />You're arguing for a perfectly efficient market, wherein every customer perfectly is charged for his or her consumption. Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-88184556006893120682014-06-22T05:42:18.561-07:002014-06-22T05:42:18.561-07:00Interesting you see it as free soap and shampoo.
H...Interesting you see it as free soap and shampoo.<br />Hotels are companies and companies pass on their costs to their customers. You are already paying for these soaps and shampoos. <br />Also you aren't passing on the cost to someone else.<br />e.g.<br />A person pays $100 for a room that was there 1 week before you got there<br />You paid $100 a night.<br />Another person pays $100 a night for a room 1 week after you leave.<br />Presuming the hotel doesn't tack on a shampoo and soap fee...<br />If everyone is paying the same rate then who is paying for whose services and supplies? Nobody gets a refund for unused soaps and shampoos.<br /><br />Now there can be debates of consumption and creation of waste products on a moralistic level that I am in agreement with here. I'm just saying that you have already paid for those items so it isnt passing on a cost and hurting others.<br /><br />Pulling Myself Uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03676667648941966869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-53505416704780947632014-06-19T11:07:58.876-07:002014-06-19T11:07:58.876-07:00I won't shop at Walmart for this reason, but t...I won't shop at Walmart for this reason, but the fact is, so many of the major corporations cut costs for consumers while adding costs to the environment or it's employees or society. If I take my business away from all the major brands, how much will it cost me? I try to find a balance as best as I can. ps. Watch the documentary "We're Not Broke" if you haven't already.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11378658961997515035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-45063045304236429472014-06-19T09:04:19.036-07:002014-06-19T09:04:19.036-07:00I have thought about these issues in the past, of ...I have thought about these issues in the past, of not funding heavy polluters, tobacco companies, and others that are not necessarily good socially conscious companies. But then I look at the returns of the socially conscious indexes and see that they are pretty poor. So the choice is to invest in the socially conscious indexes and probably not meet my retirement goals, or just invest in the total stock market and ignore my social objections to some of the companies in the index. I choose to do the latter, so that I earn the total market share, but then I protest the not socially conscious companies by avoiding their products.Bryce @ Save and Conquerhttp://www.saveandconquer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-44530856451290699552014-06-18T18:01:39.377-07:002014-06-18T18:01:39.377-07:00Good idea, Chattanoooga Cheapster. I'll dig in...Good idea, Chattanoooga Cheapster. I'll dig into that. Though I wonder if it's technically possible to "index" ethical companies, because the decision of whether a company is ethical or not is, by definition, something that has to be done by a human...leading us into the realm of active investing.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-20351507529637103992014-06-18T18:00:38.611-07:002014-06-18T18:00:38.611-07:00Thanks, Tonya! I do think we end up caring more ab...Thanks, Tonya! I do think we end up caring more about the really important stuff as we get older, and find it easier to avoid temptations.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-43302300793673293752014-06-18T17:59:41.767-07:002014-06-18T17:59:41.767-07:00Good on you, Lisa. I at least feel good knowing th...Good on you, Lisa. I at least feel good knowing they're being used by Mrs. Done by Forty.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-70459623023919000182014-06-18T17:59:23.358-07:002014-06-18T17:59:23.358-07:00Good point, and a tough question to answer. How do...Good point, and a tough question to answer. How do you evaluate your net impact if your gains might be from somewhat questionable sources, but you do some good with that profit?Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-27507328056716326362014-06-18T17:58:01.337-07:002014-06-18T17:58:01.337-07:00Yep, active investing is a no-no for us. We're...Yep, active investing is a no-no for us. We're big believers in the index approach -- we just have some misgivings about the little externalities.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-28327821224474681452014-06-18T17:57:14.882-07:002014-06-18T17:57:14.882-07:00I defer a lot of my 'do-gooding' until lat...I defer a lot of my 'do-gooding' until later, too. I might pick teaching back up again in early retirement, volunteer more, and we might even give more later, too.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-20105291009634679922014-06-18T10:05:05.397-07:002014-06-18T10:05:05.397-07:00Have you ever researched to find if there are fund...Have you ever researched to find if there are funds that index the more ethical S&P companies? Sounds like a good subject for an article. Chattanooga Cheapsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03585462289833233592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-90010471738447284622014-06-18T07:38:39.368-07:002014-06-18T07:38:39.368-07:00You always ask such good questions! I think I have...You always ask such good questions! I think I have become more conscious of this as I get older. It's suddenly not just about me anymore. So on the level of the hotel stuff, I use it if I need it but don't take extra, but as far as investments, that has been a bit out of sight, out of mind, but perhaps it's something I need to look into more. Tonya@Budget and the Beachhttp://www.budgetandthebeach.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-6274228575996186862014-06-17T13:12:48.419-07:002014-06-17T13:12:48.419-07:00I used to take those hotel soaps, too! But I also ...I used to take those hotel soaps, too! But I also noticed that I never use them anyways, so I stopped.Lisa E. @ Lisa vs. the Loanshttp://www.lisavstheloans.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-50172100740931912872014-06-17T11:53:29.771-07:002014-06-17T11:53:29.771-07:00I wouldn't sweat the hotel shampoo and soap di...I wouldn't sweat the hotel shampoo and soap dilemma. Small potatoes.<br /><br />I can't really wrap my head around what I'm investing in and the ethics of it. I know I'm inadvertently supporting stuff I don't believe in. But it's hard to avoid in a complex society.<br /><br />Here's one way to look at it -- like Robin Hood. Sure, that index fund may be invested in Monsanto, but someday you can use your gains to do some good.Janeennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-86336733773772958032014-06-17T10:55:31.601-07:002014-06-17T10:55:31.601-07:00The "whole" market is a whole market ind...The "whole" market is a whole market index - if you weren't buying the whole market, you move towards "active" investing - and away from the market averages. I have seen several "socially" conscious indexes, but the fees are pretty high up there. Another wrench to throw into your thinking is that we depend on people that have their own best interests at heart (active investors, etc) to maintain the viability of index funds :) If everyone's buying index funds, the market isn't going to move anywhere....Mom @ Three is Plentyhttp://3isplenty.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-10886116054038136782014-06-17T10:01:47.268-07:002014-06-17T10:01:47.268-07:00In the grand scheme of things it's a every man...In the grand scheme of things it's a every man for himself world. Until you get to that certain point where the money doesn't matter. I think that's when taking soaps or investing in a pollution/non-eco friendly company starts to bother you a little. Defintly something to think about for me, I'm not at this point, saving the world is great, but I'd rather do it when I don't care about money.Even Stevenhttp://evenstevenmoney.comnoreply@blogger.com