tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post4738213987845904685..comments2024-03-29T03:03:36.922-07:00Comments on Done by Forty: Benefits Now!Done By Fortyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-64542094987587155402017-11-07T13:53:07.836-07:002017-11-07T13:53:07.836-07:00Alternatively, we should all be able to have $18k ...Alternatively, we should all be able to have $18k limits on the traditional IRA, and if you don't have a tax advantaged plan (ME) then you get double the contribution limits! And the deductibility should be up to $18k per person. While I'm dreaming. Revanchehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07293868300535734672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-11524495797568072982017-11-03T13:58:10.351-07:002017-11-03T13:58:10.351-07:00I may have given in and had McDonald's for lun...I may have given in and had McDonald's for lunch today, specifically for the fries. But the two cheeseburgers aren't too shabby, either.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-47368914936276978212017-11-03T13:57:25.173-07:002017-11-03T13:57:25.173-07:00Ha! It is now my small dream that Vanguard hides t...Ha! It is now my small dream that Vanguard hides this sort of suggestion in a future release of its app.<br /><br />I think the Traditional IRA should be available only to those who don't have a 401k and its limit should match: so $18k for this year, $18.5 or next. Seems outrageous that those without generous employers also get less generous tax incentives.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-55721528011495417662017-11-03T09:34:32.173-07:002017-11-03T09:34:32.173-07:00If Vanguard's app incorporated your suggestion...If Vanguard's app incorporated your suggestion, that would make for some REALLY awkward work mornings :D <br /><br />My biggest pet peeve right now is that the tax advantaged plans are by and large tied into employers, and that's incredibly frustrating when your employer makes bad choices or doesn't even offer any retirement plans. Revanchehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07293868300535734672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-77404667464031226542017-11-03T09:28:35.366-07:002017-11-03T09:28:35.366-07:00UGH those damn fries! Just smelling them turns on ...UGH those damn fries! Just smelling them turns on receptors that are normally off. Revanchehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07293868300535734672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-81846794685449544032017-11-02T20:46:50.345-07:002017-11-02T20:46:50.345-07:00That's a pretty interesting side effect: peopl...That's a pretty interesting side effect: people who are already exhibiting the good behavior aren't getting any incentives, so they may feel cheated.<br /><br />I'm not sure how to square that. Hmmm. Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-18566786840203393052017-11-02T12:37:55.949-07:002017-11-02T12:37:55.949-07:00That's an interesting point, Candi. Both the f...That's an interesting point, Candi. Both the federal government and the employers themselves would pay more.<br /><br />However, the fact that the government already provides incentives (tax deferral) as do employers who have a match in the 401k, points to the fact that these organizations voluntarily nudge people towards the behavior. On its face, it seems they want more people to invest, and in greater sums.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-1541704615864995852017-11-02T12:36:18.398-07:002017-11-02T12:36:18.398-07:00I think anyone who is subsidizing medical care (i....I think anyone who is subsidizing medical care (i.e. - the federal government, via ACA, Medicare & Medicaid, or the insurance companies themselves) has a win-win scenario on their hands for this type of smoking cessation program.<br /><br />But yeah, I'm always kind of frustrated how limited the rollout of this stuff is. Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-31286760565444701432017-11-02T09:49:11.364-07:002017-11-02T09:49:11.364-07:00Interesting post. I can't help wondering if ma...Interesting post. I can't help wondering if many employers would go to those extra lengths to get employees to realize the benefits of a 401K because after all, don't they benefit when people don't take advantage? They could also set the default to be whatever the max match amount is and make people contact them to change it instead of having the default be zero. Because people are also lazy.Candi @minhushttp://minhus.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-21518768492284768932017-11-02T08:56:10.689-07:002017-11-02T08:56:10.689-07:00Ha! The investment incentives! And that's inte...Ha! The investment incentives! And that's interesting about the CVS experiment. It would be cool if that was just a regular program for everyone. <br />Bad habits, like smoking or not setting aside retirement money, can be really hard to break, and I love the short-term incentive approach.Femme Frugalityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07258982361804942329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-90895762909849641742017-11-01T06:56:58.247-07:002017-11-01T06:56:58.247-07:00In regards to the CVS experiment with smokers, one...In regards to the CVS experiment with smokers, one Japanese company is giving non-smokers 6 extra vacation days. I don't think it is an experiment and part of the reasoning might be non-smokers feeling that they have to work more so deserve the days. But a factor was that they wanted to deter smoking. I think they said 4 people have quit.Andrew@LivingRichCHeaplyhttp://www.livingrichcheaply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-40025590518403813902017-10-31T10:04:52.998-07:002017-10-31T10:04:52.998-07:00Yolo, mofo will definitely be making its way into ...Yolo, mofo will definitely be making its way into some posts.<br /><br />It is funny how siloed our gains are: we can be great at hacking finances but have poor health and poor relationships. I suspect that either the hack doesn't translate, or we simply have goals that are specific to finances...maybe we don't actually care that much about our own health.<br /><br />The smoking experiment kind of falls along those lines. A short term financial reward/punishment is more motivating than, say, the short term health benefits of feeling better.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-54950574867738992532017-10-31T08:10:52.587-07:002017-10-31T08:10:52.587-07:00"We nerds who have come to love personal fina..."We nerds who have come to love personal finance have also probably discovered some trick or tip that allows us to suffer small sacrifices today in pursuit of a long term goal"<br /><br />The tips/tricks/mindset seems to be limited to certain areas (at least for me). I can easily not give in to a "want" purchase because I know the long term goal is worthwhile. However, I wish that same mindset transferred to health/career. The effort to attend a networking function (good for career growth) seems huge most days, and I'll be damned if I'm not eating that last slice of pizza.<br /><br />P.S. - Yolo, mofo should be worked into every post. Love it. Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15020128585557375787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-29632592598366491322017-10-30T14:33:15.755-07:002017-10-30T14:33:15.755-07:00EcoCatLady you read to the end, too! I knew I coul...EcoCatLady you read to the end, too! I knew I could count on you. :)<br /><br />I feel like the IRA could use some serious revamping to institute the same advantages that the 401k does. Why not just make the Traditional IRA limit 18k and restrict a Traditional IRA to those who don't have an employee plan available to them?<br /><br />Either way, the packaging of the benefits needs to focus a lot more on the present benefits (you avoid taxes like, right now!) rather than the far off ones (you'll have a lot of money when you're 65).<br /><br />Your MTF calculation is another great example of seeing present progress: you bought a month or week or whatever of freedom. It's no orgasm, but still...Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-67155599290733727962017-10-30T14:30:10.030-07:002017-10-30T14:30:10.030-07:00Hey, Erin!
I remember hearing about those sorts o...Hey, Erin!<br /><br />I remember hearing about those sorts of bets in a book (Nudge? I can't remember). But yes, skin in the game brings about much, much better results. Many of us don't have the guts to engage in such a system though: the loss aversion that motivates us also keeps so many of us from playing such a game.<br /><br />And thanks for laughing at the last one! I snuck it in there to see who actually read to the end. You may be the only one. ;)<br /><br />And Predictibly Irrational is on my list, for sure. I think it'd be right up my alley. Thanks for the tip.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-83753149559526203432017-10-30T14:28:17.681-07:002017-10-30T14:28:17.681-07:00Absolutely, Andrew.
I probably could have flushe...Absolutely, Andrew. <br /><br />I probably could have flushed out the impacts of negative reinforcement on personal finance more. (i.e. - at all...I was tying late last night).<br /><br />For example, would we be willing to invest in an IRA if it meant that the government wouldn't slap you with a "you're not investing tax"?<br /><br />We'd have to carve out exceptions for those below a certain income limit, perhaps, but there must be a way to punish those who aren't acting properly, right?<br /><br />This is very possibly a terrible idea. Let's just drop it.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-74392378104791408842017-10-30T11:56:49.277-07:002017-10-30T11:56:49.277-07:00Monkey brains indeed! Honestly, as a person who ne...Monkey brains indeed! Honestly, as a person who never had the benefit of things like employer matching programs, I simply can't fathom why anyone wouldn't contribute the absolute maximum. I mean, it's free money, after all. Seriously, though, I wonder if people who have these benefits just don't realize how lucky they are. I mean, for the vast majority of my career we had no 403b (the non-profit equivalent of a 401k) so my only retirement option was the good old IRA. <br /><br />Anyhow, when I was saving, I used to do a monthly accounting - which included a MTF calculation (months 'till freedom). It wasn't quite as good as an orgasm, but pretty darned close! :-)EcoCatLadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704811319510740473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-71385962889292125572017-10-30T11:55:16.911-07:002017-10-30T11:55:16.911-07:00I've heard the exact same. Actually, I was wat...I've heard the exact same. Actually, I was watching a course on procrastination which cited a study where people were more likely to complete a task if they told a friend of their deadline, and then gave them money to either receive back if they met the deadline, or to be donated to a cause they disliked if they blew the deadline. It definitely helps to have skin in the game. <br /><br />I was never fortunate enough to be employed by a company that offered 401(k)s, but from talking to friends, it seems like most employees are woefully uninformed in that department, so I agree with all of your suggestions. The last one had me laughing. <br /><br />Also, if you haven't read Predictably Irrational, I recommend it! Erinhttp://journeytosaving.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-28342393204516312422017-10-30T11:17:29.152-07:002017-10-30T11:17:29.152-07:00Interesting study. It is so true that the pain of...Interesting study. It is so true that the pain of losing money is a stronger emotion than the joy of gaining money. Definitely good to have some skin in the game to keep you motivated. Andrew@LivingRichCheaplyhttp://www.livingrichcheaply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-47434251751300920532017-10-30T11:06:39.472-07:002017-10-30T11:06:39.472-07:00Hi there, Luxe!
The decision of what to set as t...Hi there, Luxe! <br /><br />The decision of what to set as the default is one of the big takeaways I had from "Nudge" -- humans are very likely to just stick with the default, so why not set the default to what we know is a good behavior, while giving people the freedom to choose otherwise if they want.<br /><br />There's actually some good evidence that a tax refund is a good thing for a lot of people (i.e. - they may be more likely to save or invest it, since they only have to make one good decision, as opposed to 26 good decisions if they get that money in each paycheck).<br /><br />Nonetheless, I think rewarding good behavior (or punishing bad behavior) in the present may prove to be a better driver.<br /><br />I had thought of writing about having companies institute a punishment for bad behavior, like taking away dental coverage if you don't invest at least 10% in your 401k....but maybe that's a step too far. :)Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-23587893320855457902017-10-30T10:47:02.806-07:002017-10-30T10:47:02.806-07:00I'm pretty sure the lack of a calculator is ex...I'm pretty sure the lack of a calculator is exactly why I get a too-large refund come tax time. Shhh, don't tell the other PF bloggers! But I love how it feels when that check comes.<br /><br />My company auto enrolls you into a 401k at a certain percentage, which I think is great. The Luxe Strategisthttp://www.theluxestrategist.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-86183516351610813172017-10-30T10:16:36.300-07:002017-10-30T10:16:36.300-07:00Totally! Loss aversion is crazy but it's one o...Totally! Loss aversion is crazy but it's one of the main things that drives sub-optimal behavior. <br /><br />Like, I don't really want fries right now. But give me a large McDonald's fries for a minute, then try to take it away from me, and see what happens.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-48904453741558595342017-10-30T08:55:11.404-07:002017-10-30T08:55:11.404-07:00It's funny how the mind works that losing some...It's funny how the mind works that losing something is worse than gaining something. It's like when you get sick, you suddenly realize how good it feels to feel good. But when we are relatively healthy, we don't mind eating junk food and drinking too much. Humans are weird! Tonya@Budget and the Beachhttp://www.budgetandthebeach.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-16690265214078087592017-10-30T08:06:37.821-07:002017-10-30T08:06:37.821-07:00Hey there, Handy Millennial. Great blog name.
Peo...Hey there, Handy Millennial. Great blog name.<br /><br />People definitely overestimate the effectiveness of willpower. It's surprisingly weak in a lot of people: I much prefer systems and, if possible, systems that hack the gaps in our brains, like what the Penn researchers did with incentivizing good behavior with a small reward (or punishment) now.<br /><br />And if we create an orgasm-based reward system for retirement investing, who knows, we may just solve the retirement crisis in a really enjoyable way.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-75268270022446472482017-10-30T07:50:45.158-07:002017-10-30T07:50:45.158-07:00Great post! I did not know about the study at Penn...Great post! I did not know about the study at Penn. It does make sense. Most people greatly overestimate their will power. They see a large number and they go for it.<br /><br />I also really like your suggestions for rewarding yourself for extra investments. I'll be pitching that one in conversation later this month.Handy Millennialhttp://www.handymillennial.comnoreply@blogger.com