tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post4284377984302407113..comments2024-03-29T03:03:36.922-07:00Comments on Done by Forty: The Lottery: You Can't Win If You Don't PlayDone By Fortyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-77257506612659020662014-01-23T14:59:42.312-07:002014-01-23T14:59:42.312-07:00I'd say the service is the gambling, and the t...I'd say the service is the gambling, and the tax is the 30% the government keeps prior to payouts and costs. As for whether something is an investment or not, I'd say that even speculative investing should have a positive expected return (e.g. - payout is so great if a success, that it justifies the low chance of success). If it has a negative expected return and you put money into anyway, I can't call it an investment. <br /><br />But what we call these things doesn't matter all that much: a rose by any other name, and all that.<br />Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-89815786836741956432014-01-23T14:39:28.369-07:002014-01-23T14:39:28.369-07:00The lottery is absolutely, definitely gambling. B...The lottery is absolutely, definitely gambling. But gambling is also a form of investment. An investment doesn't have to have a positive expected rate of return. Angel investors regularly fund startups knowing that the vast majority of them will fail. But what they are hoping for is that one of them will pay off so spectacularly that it will make up for those that don't. It's exactly the same way with the lottery. Your returns are going to look awful...unless you win.<br /><br />I'm not trying to defend the lottery. I'll admit that it is a truly awful investment for most people. But I don't think it falls under the definition of a tax either, because it's not being levied on top of some other good or service.The Executionerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04419763605714282331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-60882157336529384822014-01-16T14:54:40.283-07:002014-01-16T14:54:40.283-07:00Crikey... I got a reply pretty quickly. It's a...Crikey... I got a reply pretty quickly. It's a bit long to paste here so I will email you on your contact form. I bet it gets caught in your spam folder though as the text is very spammy! You can do with it what you wish sir.theFIREstarterhttp://thefirestarter.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-45282714799473991342014-01-15T23:04:27.236-07:002014-01-15T23:04:27.236-07:00That's amazingly clever on the part of the gov...That's amazingly clever on the part of the government. Though I wonder how prevalent tax evasion must be to justify giving away free lottery tickets to all customers?Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-38159088769063644612014-01-15T21:54:49.571-07:002014-01-15T21:54:49.571-07:00In Taiwan, every receipt from every store doubles ...In Taiwan, every receipt from every store doubles as a lottery ticket (to entice customers to demand receipts from stores, to battle tax evasion). It's quite a clever system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-4221246485873449652014-01-15T15:30:19.548-07:002014-01-15T15:30:19.548-07:00Ha ha... I was actually joking but you've spur...Ha ha... I was actually joking but you've spurred me on now. Here is my email, I will post the reply when I get it (if it's worth posting)<br /><br />GREETINGS GREAT LORD DIVA,<br /><br />I HEAR YOU ARE GOD OF LOTTO!<br /><br />PLEASE HELP ME WIN MAXIMUM GOLD COINS FOR MY FAMILY!<br /><br />WE WANT 3DTV AND NEW IPAD AND BIG SHINY CAR!<br /><br />THANKING YOU!<br /><br />THEFIRESTARTER<br /><br />XtheFIREstarterhttp://thefirestarter.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-44832254994497214102014-01-15T11:49:58.906-07:002014-01-15T11:49:58.906-07:00Great comment, Passive Income Pursuit, and definit...Great comment, Passive Income Pursuit, and definitely no loss of credibility, here. I waste money on TV every month, and that has no chance of making me millions.<br /><br />I have to ask though: is it actually possible for the math to work in your favor with any lottery? I can appreciate that the payout can be high enough for the math to be in your favor. But does that account for the fact that you are likely to get multiple winners splitting the pot when it gets to that Powerball, 9 figure payout level? My gut says the numbers really never work out in the players favor, but, as always, I may be wrong.<br /><br />You know my thoughts on the inefficiency of the lottery. And I share your issue with the state's hypocrisy, as well. Governments have generally stated that gambling is something they don't want in their districts...unless we're playing the government's game.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-84391483447025618952014-01-15T11:37:12.463-07:002014-01-15T11:37:12.463-07:00Well, I do have to admit that I do play the lotter...Well, I do have to admit that I do play the lottery. Ooops! Hope I didn't lose any credibility. But at least I only play when the math works out, although the chance is still ridiculously small. For my situation I think it's okay. The financial foundation is in place, so throwing a few bucks at the chance to turn it into millions overnight is fine by me. I won't go blowing through that money. It's just a way to speed up the FI process if my number happens to come up.<br /><br />Actually 30% of all proceeds going to the state seems like a pretty good way to "tax" the people. Especially when you add in that most states have already taken 4-8% off the top already from income taxes. It's not the most efficient way to fund programs, but at least the money is going to "good causes". I only put that in quotes because there's always someone that will argue that teaching kids about nature or some other program is something the government shouldn't be involved with. <br /><br />The big issue I have with lotteries is when the state deems that gambling isn't allowed in their borders, unless it's gambling that benefits them. No you can't gamble, but you can play this lottery instead. Which we get to collect funds from. But nothing else. Conflict of interest at all? Passive Income Pursuithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13947101854482544346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-37450361301425739372014-01-15T08:12:52.012-07:002014-01-15T08:12:52.012-07:00That is a very sad but totally fitting story. It r...That is a very sad but totally fitting story. It really is more likely to be hit by lightning. Thanks for the comment!Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-23730283177612602332014-01-15T08:11:46.014-07:002014-01-15T08:11:46.014-07:00I'd have a hard time calling it an investment....I'd have a hard time calling it an investment. Lotteries have a negative expected return. I call them a tax simply because they predictably raise funds for the government, at a set 'take rate'. Just like a sales tax or a property tax. All involve voluntary purchases, all raise funds for the government.<br /><br />But the most appropriate term for what a lottery is, is also the most obvious: it's gambling.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-23196188305165919412014-01-14T19:45:42.388-07:002014-01-14T19:45:42.388-07:00Aw you hit one of.my pet peeves! As in, you can&#...Aw you hit one of.my pet peeves! As in, you can't win of you don't play...and you can't win if you do!<br />Seriously, years ago I read that a person has a better chance of being struck by lightning than winning the lottery. I worked in a convenience store that sold thousands of tickets per week. The store never sold a winning ticket. But one of our customers was struck by lightning.<br />That brought home the reality of the true odds and just how much people were being strung along to part with their cash, by their own government. Sad. And I cringe every time I hear one of those ads. Thank you for this post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-34335629901437000662014-01-14T17:21:19.846-07:002014-01-14T17:21:19.846-07:00No, the lottery is not a tax on anyone. Lotteries...No, the lottery is not a tax on anyone. Lotteries are best thought of as extremely speculative investments. Regardless of how remote the chances of winning are, it is greater than zero.<br /><br />Just as a very speculative venture captial investment might not be appropriate for a 100-year old retiree subsisting on social security and not much else, a purchase of a lottery ticket is not an appropriate investment for most people. Unfortunately humans have a tendency to significantly overestimate the chances of extremely rare events actually occurring -- hence the popularity of lottery games among people for whom they are not appropriate investments.<br /><br />Perhaps a lottery ticket purchase should include a prospectus and a mandatory suitability check?The Executionerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04419763605714282331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-12409600279616226092014-01-14T15:12:35.683-07:002014-01-14T15:12:35.683-07:00Great points, Firestarter. But you know that gambl...Great points, Firestarter. But you know that gambling with friends keeps 100% among the group. Even gambling at a poker table in a casino keeps 95%+ with the players. The lottery takes a much larger cut.<br /><br />As for my viewpoint being idealistic, I'd have to disagree. State lotteries weren't widespread in the US, as recently as the 1980's. We've gone without them before...in my lifetime.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-38810390747137223602014-01-14T14:57:49.898-07:002014-01-14T14:57:49.898-07:00Well well well, another interesting debate you hav...Well well well, another interesting debate you have got going here Mr DB40 :)<br /><br />First of all I won't write too much as there has been a lot of back and forth and most views have already been stated.<br /><br />I definitely fall on the side of allowing a state lottery though. For the simple reason that people LOVE gambling. If you don't provide a state lottery they will find a way to gamble anyway, be it illegally or just with friends. At least some of that money is going back to them rather than to a semi organised crime or some already rich dudes coffers. I get all of your arguments against it I really do, but that is an idealists viewpoint, whereas the argument for it is the realists viewpoint. Which one is the better viewpoint is obviously also up for debate of course :)<br /><br />Oh and isn't that a picture of a UK lottery ticket? Or do they really look so similar in the US?theFIREstarterhttp://thefirestarter.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-27249103382037470202014-01-14T13:50:08.128-07:002014-01-14T13:50:08.128-07:00That's pretty messed up. It's bad enough t...That's pretty messed up. It's bad enough the government preys on the uneducated in order to educate the youth...but using bait and switch takes it to a whole new level of wrong.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-31792224652790729252014-01-14T13:48:17.057-07:002014-01-14T13:48:17.057-07:00Great idea. I was thinking of doing the same and m...Great idea. I was thinking of doing the same and making a post out of it. Let me know what you hear (and, of course, how much you win!)Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-6643650501208453342014-01-14T13:28:46.274-07:002014-01-14T13:28:46.274-07:00Well, here in NC, they have been siphoning money a...Well, here in NC, they have been siphoning money away from the "real" reason why they allowed a lottery. Our "education" lottery is supposed to put money back in our schools, but it always seems to be appropriated for the general fund of our government. Wrong on every level.Grayson @ Debt Rounduphttp://www.debtroundup.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-33557596434967338742014-01-14T13:24:22.247-07:002014-01-14T13:24:22.247-07:00Guys don't be too quick to judge, he could be ...Guys don't be too quick to judge, he could be the real deal. I'll send an email on behalf of the comments section and report back soon ;)theFIREstarterhttp://thefirestarter.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-87413403910014568582014-01-14T09:01:01.483-07:002014-01-14T09:01:01.483-07:00Agreed. I think educating the populace on basic pe...Agreed. I think educating the populace on basic personal finance, and the products they would be wise to avoid, would be a great first step.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-30729151223044331432014-01-14T09:00:17.857-07:002014-01-14T09:00:17.857-07:00I did a little research on what Zell Miller did wi...I did a little research on what Zell Miller did with the HOPE scholarship. It sounds like a good program. But that doesn't necessarily justify getting the funds for that scholarship from gambling. Wouldn't it be better to tax the population broadly, via a progressive income tax, than a regressive (but voluntary) tax of gambling, which causes damage to vulnerable segments of the population?Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-16372449170909290782014-01-14T08:58:06.217-07:002014-01-14T08:58:06.217-07:00It's a double edged sword. I don't want to...It's a double edged sword. I don't want to limit freedoms, but I think there needs to be a worthwhile social benefit for us to subject our citizens to this sort of gambling, especially when it's promoted by the state.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-75968605913268222452014-01-14T08:57:07.874-07:002014-01-14T08:57:07.874-07:00That's the sort of thing I worry about: the po...That's the sort of thing I worry about: the potentially huge costs of habitual gambling on state lotteries. It's a dangerous habit.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-8538838014205716552014-01-14T08:02:09.064-07:002014-01-14T08:02:09.064-07:00LOL. I had to read that comment a few times to ge...LOL. I had to read that comment a few times to get the gist of it. Nice!Holly@ClubThriftyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16943656467827987350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-48101345589762803522014-01-14T05:49:27.551-07:002014-01-14T05:49:27.551-07:00I just wish there was better education and more ac...I just wish there was better education and more accessible information out there for poorer communities when it comes to finance- and everything else to be honest. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11378658961997515035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-28194089750367115052014-01-14T05:35:26.135-07:002014-01-14T05:35:26.135-07:00What about cigarettes?
Having just moved from U...What about cigarettes? <br /><br />Having just moved from Utah, I was a big advocate for them to have a lottery. Look at what Zell Miller did in Georgia! Elroyhttp://moiandmoney.comnoreply@blogger.com