tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post4328259572093315425..comments2024-03-27T09:17:51.095-07:00Comments on Done by Forty: Power of the BaselineDone By Fortyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-35552713553753486292014-11-22T10:47:08.933-07:002014-11-22T10:47:08.933-07:00That's a good example of how what we're us...That's a good example of how what we're used to paying (and Mrs. DB40 and I are used to staying in some very affordable digs) might negatively influence a unique experience, like your daughter's first time in a hotel in a cool place like Vegas. I also think it's pretty cool that your kid's a budding foodie. At ten, I think I was just a budding jerkface.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-64522949404537513092014-11-19T15:10:56.720-07:002014-11-19T15:10:56.720-07:00Great post. Perspective is really key. I find that...Great post. Perspective is really key. I find that I can be too much of a tightwad with some things because I want to save the money, but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make sense. <br /><br />Example: We splurged and took our 10-year-old on a trip to Vegas last weekend (no, not for the gambling, she's a budding foodie and has been dying to try a Beef Wellington). <br /><br />I was pricing out the budget hotels near the strip when I finally stood back and realized that the $200 I could save wasn't worth it. It was our daughter's first time in a hotel and we were going to be short on time anyway given the length of the trip. A nice hotel mid-strip was worth every penny. Em Capito, LCSWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07690949620210399390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-64150547742750836902014-11-19T14:19:36.009-07:002014-11-19T14:19:36.009-07:00I'm so glad I'm not the only one that bart...I'm so glad I'm not the only one that barters his bills. I think DirecTV and my internet company are sick of negotiating with me at this point.,<br /><br />Reductions from a high baseline really can be deceptive, because the savings, even relatively paltry ones, do improve our cashflow. They can lead us to bad situations that are just a bit better than our current one.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-37671298690309126002014-11-19T14:17:04.340-07:002014-11-19T14:17:04.340-07:00Yeah, though if it helps at all, I don't think...Yeah, though if it helps at all, I don't think you're alone with that sort of bill. It's pretty common. On the plus side, there are a ton of lower cost options if you want to check them out on that IP Daley link in the post.<br /><br />Just be sure to pick the one that's the best fit, rather than just jumping after the savings.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-52107851462631658072014-11-19T14:15:37.143-07:002014-11-19T14:15:37.143-07:00Yep, that's true. The lower your monthly expen...Yep, that's true. The lower your monthly expenditures, the more you can invest, and the less you need to reach FI.<br /><br />I like to think there's a bit more to it, as well. Extreme baselines have a funny way of affecting our future decisions. For example, we no longer have a mortgage. That has some unintended impacts on where we now might move, even if we might like that house or neighborhood a bit more. Simply put, we're very used to not having a mortgage: it'll take a good bit of convincing to take one on again. (The transaction costs of selling don't help, either.)<br /><br />It'd be easier to make such a move if we still had our mortgage, or if we were renting. Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-51519184975712938692014-11-19T13:50:13.299-07:002014-11-19T13:50:13.299-07:00Very interesting and thought-provoking post, Mr. D...Very interesting and thought-provoking post, Mr. DbF! I agree that baselines can be deceptive, and very misleading, if one starts off high - then if there's any reduction, then it seems like a bargain! We're trying to reach even lower baselines with our 'fixed' costs, which are really non-essentials (i.e., cable, internet). Though the best baseline for those items would be zero, we aren't necessarily fully committed to do without, so we just try to reach zero as much as possible. So far it's worked, despite the annual phone bartering and threats to leave their business. We still think it's worth it, though!annahttp://areyagonnaeatthat.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-71301737876087075352014-11-19T10:45:34.857-07:002014-11-19T10:45:34.857-07:00Currently, I'm paying about $102/month for my ...Currently, I'm paying about $102/month for my cellphone (with a data plan). It's just too high!Kayla @ Femme Frugalityhttp://femmefrugality.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-36806577586540065712014-11-19T08:52:05.691-07:002014-11-19T08:52:05.691-07:00I refer to the concept as your monthly nut. The l...I refer to the concept as your monthly nut. The lower you keep that monthly nut the easier it is to save/invest the difference. Evan @ My Journey to Millionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07645584077902238201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-43610980902968251472014-11-19T08:23:46.893-07:002014-11-19T08:23:46.893-07:00That's rough, but at least you're aware of...That's rough, but at least you're aware of it. It's a good example how costs can creep until you look at the total cost of ownership.<br /><br />We have to buy time every so often, too ($10 card lasts 60 days) but that's our only cost with our phone service.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-70629435344149310462014-11-18T15:08:00.418-07:002014-11-18T15:08:00.418-07:00When we first got a Tracfone, it seemed like a gre...When we first got a Tracfone, it seemed like a great idea. Then we got a second one, for security sake, in case the other was out of juice. THEN, we got a Straight Talk phone because it was unlimited monthly. Now, between the Straight Talk at $50/month (including tax), and having to buy at least 1 Tracfone card each month at $22/month (including tax), we're up to $72/month. Wow, how stupid is that? I thought we were doing so good because we didn't have expensive phones or a contract! Argh! :\kay ~ lifestylevoices.comhttp://www.lifestylevoices.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-12920860358283135522014-11-18T10:42:29.981-07:002014-11-18T10:42:29.981-07:00Even the bus lines don't go where I'm work...Even the bus lines don't go where I'm working half the time, and I go to different locations daily. It's a big money and eco suck, but it's the way things are right now.Femme Frugalityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07258982361804942329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-83152798809759625392014-11-18T08:05:09.709-07:002014-11-18T08:05:09.709-07:00That's a great example, Andrew. What we need a...That's a great example, Andrew. What we need are benchmarks (gathered from many sources of data) not a baseline (derived from our current spending).Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-75262303529252420892014-11-18T07:45:06.572-07:002014-11-18T07:45:06.572-07:00I think many people, myself included get into trou...I think many people, myself included get into trouble when we rely on a group baseline. "Hey, that's what everyone is spending so it's normal." My cable internet provider told me that my building offers a bulk rate for internet and cable TV which includes HBO/Showtime, etc. According to my co-workers who have cable, it really is an excellent deal. But I pay $0 for T.V so it's hard to convince me to spend more, even though it's a great deal. And I think many stores use this "power of baseline"...I was at the supermarket and bought something for like $5 and it says original price $5.99 so I get excited that I saved a buck. Of course, the next day I go to a different market and the price there is $3.99...argh! Andrew@LivingRichCheaplyhttp://www.livingrichcheaply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-5327693793714777362014-11-17T12:05:30.343-07:002014-11-17T12:05:30.343-07:00True, price creep is much harder if you've fir...True, price creep is much harder if you've first established a low baseline. Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-7182855627161358182014-11-17T10:02:17.149-07:002014-11-17T10:02:17.149-07:00Interesting!
I think that's a good point- you ...Interesting!<br />I think that's a good point- you get used to spending a certain amount on something and that can seriously change the way you think about that expense in the future. I like having a low baseline for expenses if possible because it makes it more difficult to allow it to creep up over time. Of course, you win some and you lose some.Holly@ClubThriftyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16943656467827987350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-76621623324161187732014-11-16T22:03:53.609-07:002014-11-16T22:03:53.609-07:00It's pretty common to spend between $50 and $8...It's pretty common to spend between $50 and $80 per phone, it seems. There's probably an idea in there about a group baseline: using each other's spending as a basis for what's reasonable.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-12671177394812311672014-11-16T20:59:50.193-07:002014-11-16T20:59:50.193-07:00You make a great point and this is something every...You make a great point and this is something everything should consider. So many of us (myself included) are spending WAY too much on our cellphones.Kayla @ Everything Financehttp://everythingfinanceblog.com/how-to-save-money-on-your-cell-phone.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-11240282590872818552014-11-16T10:03:41.956-07:002014-11-16T10:03:41.956-07:00I do the exact same thing with groceries, Erin, so...I do the exact same thing with groceries, Erin, so don't feel bad. Even if I want chicken, I will refuse to buy it if it's above $3 a pound. I'm just used to paying a lot less, and can't get over that. I might even drive to another store. Which is silly, in a lot of ways. I might save four dollars on the chicken, but spent an extra 45 minutes of my time.<br /><br />The higher cost baseline is a sneakier problem, I think. It can create real, but somewhat deceptive, opportunities for savings. Someone in a car lease (one bad decision) can end up making several more bad decisions (e.g. - several more leases or car loans that are slightly cheaper) as a result, all under the guise of savings against the baseline.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-20202505379648049882014-11-16T10:00:24.957-07:002014-11-16T10:00:24.957-07:00That's exactly the situation we find ourselves...That's exactly the situation we find ourselves in certain parts of our budget, Steven. We have no car payment and a car that never needs repairs. Our home is paid off and rarely requires maintenance. We have those cheap-ass cell phone bills. This initially seems awesome, and in some ways it is. But the rub is that the low costs act as a type of handcuff: moving to a new alternative, even if its something we might enjoy more (e.g. - different neighborhood or city), our frugal nature makes it very hard to give up the low cost option.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-62707534819133907192014-11-16T09:56:10.098-07:002014-11-16T09:56:10.098-07:00Thanks, Laurie! You spend $140 a year for three ce...Thanks, Laurie! You spend $140 a year for three cell phones? That's awesome. But there I go comparing costs again...<br /><br />As usual, I've written something that sounds fine in theory (working from a blank slate, trying to ignore current baselines) but not so great in practice...<br /><br />One of these days, I'll have to write something that's actually pragmatic re: personal finances. ;)Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-38968796242958988202014-11-16T09:53:57.901-07:002014-11-16T09:53:57.901-07:00That's a great example of what I'm talking...That's a great example of what I'm talking about, Tonya. The new car may even be less expensive than maintaining your old paid-for car. But because the payment was $0, and because repairs are too unpredictable (in either your current car or the old one), they typically won't figure into our baseline estimates of monthly costs.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-22489801535179611382014-11-16T09:51:24.642-07:002014-11-16T09:51:24.642-07:00Republic is one of the choices we consider for tim...Republic is one of the choices we consider for time to time: the PF community is overwhelmingly behind that company, and they have a flexible model. Seems like a stand up company, too. <br /><br />Transportation to jobs is always key. I remember taking the trolley from the South Hills, and then a bus to a job out in Wilkinsburg...not fun. As always, public transportation is a mixed bag.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-38446305932161566982014-11-16T09:49:26.687-07:002014-11-16T09:49:26.687-07:00Hi Petrish! Glad to have a new reader, especially ...Hi Petrish! Glad to have a new reader, especially someone with such an original blog title.<br /><br />Changing away from AT&T was a huge savings for us (there's that pesky baseline again). We went with the very lowest total cost option we could find. The downside is that now other options are very difficult for us to seriously consider. I'd just recommend really researching the options, so you're sure you'd want to stick with the new company long term. That IP Daley link in the article is a fantastic resource for checking out MNVOs.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-92141915826439663162014-11-16T09:46:42.465-07:002014-11-16T09:46:42.465-07:00Hi Firestarter,
Yeah, I feel the same way when I ...Hi Firestarter,<br /><br />Yeah, I feel the same way when I hear people excited about their $50 per month plan. It's a good deal in their eyes, and a crap deal in mine: just different baseline perspectives. It's hard to bridge that gap, as well...neither perspective is really 'wrong', per se.<br /><br />Would love if a link helps them out...let me know how that goes. :)Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-55018694438822508472014-11-16T09:45:09.356-07:002014-11-16T09:45:09.356-07:00You make a great point about people who spend ever...You make a great point about people who spend everything they earn: their savings rate baseline is $0 and 0%. Any change at all represents a pretty significant adjustment. I wish I'd thought of that.<br /><br />Thanks for the kind words, Jason, and for always reading and commenting. It's really appreciated.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.com