tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post5320129822334303029..comments2024-03-18T15:29:55.472-07:00Comments on Done by Forty: One Case of HomelessnessDone By Fortyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-77960304454521816322013-12-17T12:42:03.974-07:002013-12-17T12:42:03.974-07:00Thanks for the thoughtful comment, FIREstarter. I ...Thanks for the thoughtful comment, FIREstarter. I wouldn't say the interview was bad or anything. Though it is interesting that Corley stated the reason he wrote the book was to "bridge that gap between the rich households...and the poor households". It's likely though that this statement might have been made just because it sounds good, and his target audience may indeed be middle class people with the means to improve their habits.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-68574365143222601102013-12-17T12:14:53.114-07:002013-12-17T12:14:53.114-07:00A worthy debate DB40 on poverty, homelessness and ...A worthy debate DB40 on poverty, homelessness and all that entails.<br /><br />But to frame Corley's arguments I believe we have to look at his target audience.<br /><br />I don't think he is marketing his book to poor people and saying "why don't you just do this and you will no longer be poor". His target audience is no doubt middle class folk who do have the resources to change their habits to get ahead but are currently choosing not to use them or are unaware of their potential. In that case he is not doing anything so much different to your blog or mine for that matter?<br />Frugal habits, educating yourself on tac and investing, ring any bells? :)<br /><br />Agreed that the sales pitch is a little cruder but that was the gist I took from it. (Disclosure: I haven't listened to the audio part though so apologies if that's where things got really bad!)<br /><br />Cheers as always for a thought provoking post.theFIREstarterhttp://thefirestarter.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-66382543285653660082013-12-17T08:27:09.877-07:002013-12-17T08:27:09.877-07:00That really is all any of us can do, DATG. We can ...That really is all any of us can do, DATG. We can do our best and hope for the best.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-55461967915933030702013-12-16T11:02:10.618-07:002013-12-16T11:02:10.618-07:00I think people should be responsible for their own...I think people should be responsible for their own choices but I realize that sh*t happens all the time and we people should be mindful of that too. Some people have it a lot easier than others and its not fair for those people to judge others when they have never suffered for anything. All I know is to work hard and save as much as possible so that I can be prepared for MOST of what can happen in life.Debt and the Girlhttp://www.debtandthegirl.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-72754691136686400292013-12-16T08:33:10.193-07:002013-12-16T08:33:10.193-07:00I feel the same way, Matt. I do think personal cho...I feel the same way, Matt. I do think personal choices and habits obviously play a large role in the results you'll see; and very little is insurmountable, as you say. But I also need to remember the ridiculously cushy environment and circumstances I have compared to those of people around me, and acknowledge the probability that I wouldn't have good habits or have made as many good choices if I faced more difficulty.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-67998445583974568082013-12-16T07:19:17.548-07:002013-12-16T07:19:17.548-07:00Thanks for that really thoughtful comment, Laurie....Thanks for that really thoughtful comment, Laurie. I am in the same boat as Corley, having never been truly poor but sitting here commenting on it. I figure if I'm going to speak out of ignorance, I might as well be sympathetic and let me heart bleed a little.<br /><br />I like your concept of a tipping point: once you make a certain amount of progress, I wonder if the rest of the race becomes easier to deal with.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-58560472008965946392013-12-16T07:16:43.639-07:002013-12-16T07:16:43.639-07:00Before I met my wife, I was much more of the opini...Before I met my wife, I was much more of the opinion that in general people were able to make what they want out of their life. I still think that's true a lot of the time, but my wife has spent a lot of time working at substance abuse recovery centers and there are TONS of stories of people who are dealt incredibly bad hands in life. I think there's very little that's totally insurmountable, but I also think it's pretty easy to think that America is the land of limitless opportunity when you haven't faced any real obstacles.<br /><br />In the case of habits, I think it's probably true that there are some habits that are generally good and some that are generally bad. But I don't think it's as simple as doing good things and avoiding bad ones. There's more too it than that, but of course nuance doesn't sell books.Matt Beckerhttp://momanddadmoney.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-61161956936378393902013-12-16T07:15:09.271-07:002013-12-16T07:15:09.271-07:00Hi Holly. I've had similar periods of unemploy...Hi Holly. I've had similar periods of unemployment and have gotten lucky breaks during those times. I found the article's statistics on homelessness typically being a short term situation to be interesting. It seems like it's usually the result of a period of really bad luck.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-47824216974830701492013-12-16T06:48:28.181-07:002013-12-16T06:48:28.181-07:00Excellent post, DB40. Having grown up very, very ...Excellent post, DB40. Having grown up very, very poor, I can see both sides. I love Tom Corley's stuff, but how much does he really know, never having been there? That being said, having been dirt poor, and having worked with lots of dirt poor people, they do often look to instant gratification solutions instead of long term solutions. This is their own fault, but when you're wading in sh_t, it's kind of all-consuming and can be difficult to focus on the nice, sandy beach on the other side of many, many months of running the marathon out of poverty. We've learned this in our own journey from massive amounts of debt to on our way to debt free. We started the year with a DTI of 65%. Every move in the right direction was a huge struggle, but now, after a year, the race is getting a bit easier to run. I think that's the key: if you can make it through the really, really tough parts on the road to a better life, you can probably make it to the finish line Laurie @thefrugalfarmerhttp://www.thefrugalfarmer.net/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-74713433057095489122013-12-16T06:43:56.644-07:002013-12-16T06:43:56.644-07:00I had back surgery in my early 20's. As a res...I had back surgery in my early 20's. As a result, I wasn't able to work for several months. My parents took me in during that time but I've always wondered where I would've gone had I not had that safety net. Holly@ClubThriftyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16943656467827987350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-41106621979868705152013-12-15T20:25:22.063-07:002013-12-15T20:25:22.063-07:00Hi Stephanie,
I think in most cases (and in the a...Hi Stephanie,<br /><br />I think in most cases (and in the author's), there are usually going to be friends to stay with for a while. But I can also imagine there's a time in which someone's generosity might run out.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-8680655288892995872013-12-15T15:04:39.800-07:002013-12-15T15:04:39.800-07:00I can't imagine having an issue happen that wo...I can't imagine having an issue happen that would leave me homeless and not having friends or family take me in. Even in cities where I don't know many people, there's always a relationship to be made with someone who will help.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11378658961997515035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-88895529538314812752013-12-14T16:51:17.179-07:002013-12-14T16:51:17.179-07:00That's the second really interesting book sugg...That's the second really interesting book suggestion in this thread. Thanks, Bryce! It's on my list now.<br /><br />Number 5 and number 3 on the list seem like tremendous obstacles (though they all are certainly necessities that make it very hard to work on those habits noted in Corley's list). But I could see the psychological hardship from being sick and not being able to do anything about it, or simply not being able to keep the heat or lights on, to be things that would keep me from being able to concentrate on anything else whatsoever.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-30170733451124931632013-12-14T14:54:56.608-07:002013-12-14T14:54:56.608-07:00From "Think and Act Anew: How Poverty in Amer...From "Think and Act Anew: How Poverty in America Affects Us All," Who are “the poor?”<br /><br />1. they cannot afford housing that is clean, safe, and in good repair;<br />2. they cannot afford nutritious food for themselves and their family on a regular basis;<br />3. they cannot consistently pay their utility bills even though it is a priority;<br />4. their children are not adequately clothed for school with clean clothes that fit and are in good repair, and they do not have proper clothing for work;<br />5. they cannot afford to go to the doctor for any kind of illness for fear that the visit will be beyond their means to pay for it.<br /><br />I would say it's a little more than just attitude.Bryce @ Save and Conquerhttp://www.saveandconquer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-75678842519645555972013-12-14T09:25:46.536-07:002013-12-14T09:25:46.536-07:00Agreed, Jen. I know 'it's complicated'...Agreed, Jen. I know 'it's complicated' is not as satisfying response to poverty but I prefer that to the simplification that Corley presents.<br /><br />Also, sorry for not stopping by the blog but my site isn't properly getting ahold of your RSS feed. This happened with another blog I follow, and I'm trying to figure it out. But, anyway, thanks for commenting as it reminds me that I haven't seen the update on my blogroll...<br /><br />Cheers.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-2105896145237105332013-12-14T09:21:51.139-07:002013-12-14T09:21:51.139-07:00Thanks, femmefrugality. That man's story was e...Thanks, femmefrugality. That man's story was eye opening to me, too. Those issues of commuting & food costs and the difficulty of using your network of friends once you're homeless were surprising to me, but they do make sense.<br /><br />I get the feeling that Corley's habits might be the result of becoming rich or poor,rather than the cause. After you move up the hierarchy of needs, I think your efforts naturally might flow to building better connections with others, focusing on exercising and eating well, etc.<br />Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-33949202817460463522013-12-14T09:17:03.830-07:002013-12-14T09:17:03.830-07:00You said it better than I could, Joe. People who a...You said it better than I could, Joe. People who are busy surviving have a lot on their plate already. It's always hypothetically possible for an individual to still find a way to network and improve herself in the midst of that, and those stories are good to hear. But I don't know if bootstrapping is a viable solution for everyone in poverty.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-15892477997454170092013-12-14T09:14:53.940-07:002013-12-14T09:14:53.940-07:00Good point, Tonya. Some of the numbers I heard abo...Good point, Tonya. Some of the numbers I heard about the people living in tent villages were shocking.<br /><br />I'd like to think that the space I have between us and the street is simply the result of my hard work and saving. While that's part of the story, a lot of it is just dumb luck. We moved here from San Diego in 2009 with no job prospects and very little money. I struggled to find work for a couple months, and finally got recruited by a head hunter for a temporary office job that lasted a whole 3 months! I then worked as a teacher for a little while ($30k salary...woot!) and finally got a permanent procurement job offer from the company I temped at. That got us settled and on our feet so Mrs. DB40 could go to school and we could pay tuition as we needed. <br /><br />But things could have turned out very differently if we didn't get those jobs early on. We got lucky in 2009.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-56454368651244708982013-12-14T09:07:41.949-07:002013-12-14T09:07:41.949-07:00Hi, 101 Centavos. I've never been poor so it m...Hi, 101 Centavos. I've never been poor so it might have been better for me to steer clear of the subject, but, you know, I never did have a good filter. :)<br /><br />I liked your post on changing demographics of America's rural areas, too. Cheers.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-62187893612688878492013-12-14T00:53:35.122-07:002013-12-14T00:53:35.122-07:00How great it would have been if becoming rich is j...How great it would have been if becoming rich is just a matter of having the right habits. But then there is more to it than just that for sure. Jen @ Frugal Ruleshttp://www.frugalrules.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-42937315108977286942013-12-13T21:44:03.149-07:002013-12-13T21:44:03.149-07:00I don't know what else to say other than amen....I don't know what else to say other than amen. The habits are not causal. The man on the streets opened up my eyes to a whole new world of issues I hadn't even considered for homeless people. And that whole concept can absolutely be paralleled to finding yourself if poverty. It's easy to get richer when you've got assets. It's harder to pay rent each month that goes by when you're struggling.femmefrugalityhttp://femmefrugality.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-44303220606192710732013-12-13T18:15:48.646-07:002013-12-13T18:15:48.646-07:00Most poor people just don't have the resources...Most poor people just don't have the resources and connection to do better. Mrs. RB40 spent some time with poorer friends this trip and it's hard. They are just so busy surviving that they don't have time and energy to improve their lives. <br />That Corley's article just has too many % in it to be meaningful. retirebyfortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180702594001358403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-10044873733182152862013-12-13T17:33:27.546-07:002013-12-13T17:33:27.546-07:00I think the line between the homeless and everyone...I think the line between the homeless and everyone else was certainly thinner when the recession hit. Suddenly we were hearing about middle class people losing their homes and having to live in tent villages. I think that's when people went, "whoa, could this happen to me?" I do have levels where I consider myself broke even though I'm not really. Funds that I do not want to touch unless the shit really hit the fan, and by then time yes, I would begrudgingly move in with one of my parents till I got back on my feet again, but my pride would seriously suffer. And I think sometimes it hard to motivate when you feel you lost everything and your pride is shattered. I think it makes me a lot more sympathetic to anyone who is homeless. Tonya@Budget and the Beachhttp://www.budgetandthebeach.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-41557033240682695262013-12-13T17:05:07.386-07:002013-12-13T17:05:07.386-07:00Best to have been poor for a while to appreciate w...Best to have been poor for a while to appreciate what it really means. Hotel space by-the-day is indeed expensive.101 Centavoshttp://www.101centavos.conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-8863145300385809522013-12-13T14:14:05.801-07:002013-12-13T14:14:05.801-07:00That story outlines the sort of thing I'm talk...That story outlines the sort of thing I'm talking about, EcoCatLady. Regardless of who's to 'blame' for the car loan, it illustrates the difficulties that face someone once she is in that situation. The incentives are backwards: traditional work (with the opportunity for raises, promotions, and looks good on a resume) now pays less than under the table work (which likely has a negative impact on future employment). Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.com