tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post633306111674790879..comments2024-03-18T15:29:55.472-07:00Comments on Done by Forty: Middle Class? How about Middle Quintile?Done By Fortyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-52380565828339782352018-10-21T10:47:02.301-07:002018-10-21T10:47:02.301-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.jaqulinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09855085722402484691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-35507937839819531352015-04-14T07:36:33.256-07:002015-04-14T07:36:33.256-07:00The interesting thing about these statistics is th...The interesting thing about these statistics is that while the percentages of each quintile might remain the same, the individuals that make up the statistics can easily change numerous time throughout their lives. Someone in the lowest strata might move into the next higher one, while someone in the highest might sustain a loss that puts them into a lower one. Too many of these studies implicate that once in a given category, that one is in it for life....sort of like the old Indian caste system. This, unfortunately, is something that even the current presidential administration professes to be true, perhaps n an effort to promote the wealth re-distribution agenda.Kathynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-74885694379136846462015-04-08T15:52:55.950-07:002015-04-08T15:52:55.950-07:00Thanks, Jason! It's too important a term, and ...Thanks, Jason! It's too important a term, and too widely used, to have no accepted/objective definition.<br /><br />Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-73265771929368619022015-04-08T15:49:19.991-07:002015-04-08T15:49:19.991-07:00That's really the key, isn't it? Where you...That's really the key, isn't it? Where your money is going to. <br /><br />As someone who's paid off his debts, I can tell you that it feels very different to have that money going towards investments rather than to debt. You feel better on the other side, even though your spending might stay the same.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-59770726305597516312015-04-08T15:47:52.718-07:002015-04-08T15:47:52.718-07:00You're always welcome to join in, FIREstarter!...You're always welcome to join in, FIREstarter!<br /><br />Inflation's a very nuanced metric. As you noted, the prices of things often go in different directions, so a blended inflation figure like CPI (which doesn't even account for a lot of basic things) is too aggregated to apply to an individual's situation.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-33448713068790467482015-04-08T11:35:26.557-07:002015-04-08T11:35:26.557-07:00Very interesting! I find that by the income chart ...Very interesting! I find that by the income chart I'm solidly in the middle class, but I don't always feel it. I suppose I might even at the exact same income level if I weren't spending 50% of my income on debt each month. That does make a large difference to me.shoeaholicnomorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822616952729905352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-47526226421856565802015-04-08T09:53:45.692-07:002015-04-08T09:53:45.692-07:00Interesting post as usual!
It is really hard to c...Interesting post as usual!<br /><br />It is really hard to compare how well off we are compared to 50 years ago because things we buy have changed so much. As you mentioned cost of college has gone up loads, yet items such as food and, say, a fridge freezer compared to disposable income has gone down. It would be interesting to see a study that took all of these factors into account. I'm sure there's one out there somewhere!<br /><br />FYI we are in the upper class according to the poll but it's pretty meaningless for me to answer as we live in the UK. I just wanted to join in :)theFIREstarterhttp://thefirestarter.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-53908441186214866772015-04-05T20:46:56.982-07:002015-04-05T20:46:56.982-07:00Hi there, Alex. Thanks for stopping by. I wish the...Hi there, Alex. Thanks for stopping by. I wish there were spending quintiles but I'm not finding good data yet. Maybe another poll is in order!Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-10302433244471153972015-04-05T20:33:34.539-07:002015-04-05T20:33:34.539-07:00I think the small households may have a more diver...I think the small households may have a more diverse mix: 3 people can mean two earners and one kid, or a single parent with two kids. As the family sizes start to grow, my guess is that it may trend towards more and or higher earners. <br /><br />Like you said, hard to know without disaggregating the data...but fun to speculate.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-89839693080403794812015-04-05T05:59:36.802-07:002015-04-05T05:59:36.802-07:00Yes, Mrs. PoP, going by what people spend can be a...Yes, Mrs. PoP, going by what people spend can be a real eye-opener. In my case, my passive income would place me in the "middle class" quintile, but my spending would place me in the "lower class" quintile.<br /><br />AND, I am sure that there are people for whom the situation is the reverse. (Because, of course, they are spending more than they earn and borrowing to make up the difference.)Alex @ Retired To Winhttp://www.retiredtowin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-54924867853425643792015-04-04T21:23:49.067-07:002015-04-04T21:23:49.067-07:00That is actually crazy interesting. I can see how...That is actually crazy interesting. I can see how the jump between one and two person households would happen: you've got dual income most likely. Maybe after a certain number of kids someone decides to stay home to take care of them, and the sole income earner has a higher salary than the averages of the households without kids which I'm presuming would be by and large younger. <br /><br />Pure speculation. But it's fun.Femme Frugalityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07258982361804942329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-77717855484739173112015-04-04T16:36:11.577-07:002015-04-04T16:36:11.577-07:00I love how you've called out this loose defini...I love how you've called out this loose definition of 'middle class' and really put some perspective on what it truly means to be around the middle. The analytical part of me loves to tie these things to cold, hard numbers, which provides real context and perspective for these sort of discussions.<br /><br />I look forward to reading your post on net worth as well to really round this out. It would provide some great perspective for example if you're in the top quartile for income but still struggling financially with relatively little net worth.Jason@Islands of Investinghttp://www.islandsofinvesting.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-78882866066944145222015-04-02T14:40:05.954-07:002015-04-02T14:40:05.954-07:00I see what you're saying: the high-level incom...I see what you're saying: the high-level income quintiles don't account for varying family sizes (DINKs vs. family of five, for example). That's true, and it probably matters more in the bottom two (maybe three) quintiles. My assumption is that, after a certain income level, the effect of a couple kids starts to diminish.<br /><br />Give table H-11 a look: it breaks down household income by family size, if you scroll down. There's a crazy trend there: median income goes UP when you see family sizes increase, until you hit a family size of four/five, then it plateaus in the $70k+ range, and goes down a bit.<br /><br />http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/household/Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-67079080092915818242015-04-02T13:26:34.006-07:002015-04-02T13:26:34.006-07:00Yeah that is pretty cut and dry lol. I guess I jus...Yeah that is pretty cut and dry lol. I guess I just mean the size of it changes things a lot. If I were single or even just the two of us, I'd be pretty happy with my income level. The kiddos get help with health insurance as is, but nothing beyond that in terms of assistance. We're also not below the poverty line though.Femme Frugalityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07258982361804942329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-30589165670942880142015-04-02T10:04:32.073-07:002015-04-02T10:04:32.073-07:00I hear you, Jason. Income is kind of misleading: o...I hear you, Jason. Income is kind of misleading: often I feel like those who earn above a certain level (maybe $150k) feel like they can just ignore spending completely. There's a sweet spot in the engineer-type salary range that seems to allow for a great balance.<br /><br />Back when I was in 8th grade, I wish I had Guess Jeans...instead of my Bugle Boys.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-5835016657455472302015-04-02T09:35:32.522-07:002015-04-02T09:35:32.522-07:00The unfortunate thing is that we are in the top qu...The unfortunate thing is that we are in the top quintile, but because of the debt we have it feels like we have little to nothing. I know that it is not true, but I am always amazed by the power of language and perception on where people truly think they are. My parents never even got close to the upper quintile, but I never felt we went without except Guess Jeans when I was in the 8th grade.jasonedwards57https://www.blogger.com/profile/13725522432598704753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-22732375679792190562015-04-01T18:15:11.004-07:002015-04-01T18:15:11.004-07:00Yes you are! That's a great income, Sarah. I l...Yes you are! That's a great income, Sarah. I love hearing about people succeeding like that.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-2324492903683616372015-04-01T16:42:13.102-07:002015-04-01T16:42:13.102-07:00I'm Aussie, so I won't skew your figures, ...I'm Aussie, so I won't skew your figures, but I'd be upper quartile on my own salary, and my partners matched mine, so... blowing it out of the quartiles there!SarahN @ livetolisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01429385342825413879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-88287356944639163862015-03-31T11:29:28.530-07:002015-03-31T11:29:28.530-07:00Hi there EL. There's a link at the end of the ...Hi there EL. There's a link at the end of the post for some location specific quintiles.<br /><br />I did a little digging and the per capita income numbers are shockingly low: $28,329 in 2013.<br /><br />http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/people/<br /><br />Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-91434599197519931782015-03-31T10:26:46.065-07:002015-03-31T10:26:46.065-07:00It might seem like the data supports someone makin...It might seem like the data supports someone making 100 grand as middle class, but it is 2 times the average real middle class income. (52K) So I would most likely put those over 100K income level in a different category, and not middle class. Obviously the cost of living in specific markets has to be considered in relation to the income to clearly define where you stand, and how much you keep can help you move up in class. Good Post. EL@MoneyWatch101http://www.moneywatch101.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-66855929569527286712015-03-31T09:53:22.002-07:002015-03-31T09:53:22.002-07:00Thanks Mrs. Frugalwoods! Wealh/net worth is a bett...Thanks Mrs. Frugalwoods! Wealh/net worth is a better indicator of where you are financially than income, IMO. They're related, potentially, but income's fleeting and temporary, by definition. Wealth can stay.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-86513741126358953062015-03-31T09:52:01.806-07:002015-03-31T09:52:01.806-07:00Household is actually a defined term of the Census...Household is actually a defined term of the Census. We may not like the definition, but I don't think it's that vague.<br /><br />http://www.census.gov/cps/about/cpsdef.html<br /><br />However, I definitely agree that you could have a family of four or more, and be below the poverty line (while I'd still be calling them Lower Middle Class). It's a sticky wicket between the first and second quintiles. For what it's worth, benefits (e.g. - foodstamps) aren't counted in census income.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-38062593554015531032015-03-31T09:47:34.297-07:002015-03-31T09:47:34.297-07:00Thanks. I really enjoy your blog!Thanks. I really enjoy your blog!middle_classhttps://middleclassrevolution.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-191463457681010372015-03-31T03:43:16.851-07:002015-03-31T03:43:16.851-07:00Interesting. I often wonder what constitutes true ...Interesting. I often wonder what constitutes true wealth--seems like it's usually perceived as the ability to spend money on luxury items. Like you mentioned, I think the factor of how much you keep is perhaps a greater indicator of your true "class" designation than what you make and spend. But maybe I just feel that way because I don't spend much money :). To that end, I'm looking forward to your net worth post!Mrs. Frugalwoodshttp://www.frugalwoods.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-43273404053601165922015-03-31T00:30:32.154-07:002015-03-31T00:30:32.154-07:00Hey DC. I agree that the figures are location depe...Hey DC. I agree that the figures are location dependent. At the very end of the post is a state-specific quintile chart that you might find interesting.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.com