tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post6904915239452644605..comments2024-03-27T09:17:51.095-07:00Comments on Done by Forty: Median Income, Middle ClassDone By Fortyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-29099631694714001712017-09-19T10:34:16.571-07:002017-09-19T10:34:16.571-07:00This is where I would start for the social mobilit...This is where I would start for the social mobility over a lifetime:<br />https://www.ntanet.org/NTJ/66/4/ntj-v66n04p893-912-new-perpectives-income-mobility.pdf I saw another that used Social Security data that showed something similar though far less dramatic than the results claimed here. Also, be sure to remember that they aren't claiming social mobility within age cohorts, rather social mobility over time relative to the total population.Hannahhttp://unplannedfinance.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-72006350637105479562017-09-19T10:30:17.625-07:002017-09-19T10:30:17.625-07:00To be fair to the Census Bureau, they also do use ...To be fair to the Census Bureau, they also do use the term "Male household, no wife present". So in their own whack way, they are being fair.<br /><br />And the women saw bigger gains than the men. :)<br /><br />Still, shitty term. I think they use that wording to mean something along the lines of "single mother", which they're using separately from just "single female" (that they'd put under "Non family households"). So much weird terminology...<br /><br />We have way, way further to go. My pessimistic side says the groups at the bottom showed the biggest gains because they have nowhere to go but up.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-49106039937596651662017-09-19T10:23:17.196-07:002017-09-19T10:23:17.196-07:00Agreed all around! Median income is an imperfect t...Agreed all around! Median income is an imperfect tool, but I use it a lot myself. And it does provide some interesting things to think about when the micro and macro data morally conflict. <br /><br />And exactly on the lower 20%. I remember hearing that from people while the madness was going on. Quite honestly, without a college degree at the time I didn't feel as horrifically impacted as the middle class. But I heard the same sentiment from other people, too. It's interesting to see the data presumably reflect those feelings as fact.Femme Frugalityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07258982361804942329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-7948499764019533692017-09-19T10:18:59.507-07:002017-09-19T10:18:59.507-07:00Interesting statistics! It's promising to see ...Interesting statistics! It's promising to see things getting better but as a society we still have lots of work to do. <br /><br />And yes, completely agree that "female householders with no husband present" needs a better term. I mean, nobody says "male householders with no wife present." What's wrong with single female?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17344483376849442717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-86590314789182898752017-09-19T10:08:09.123-07:002017-09-19T10:08:09.123-07:00Hey there, Femme Frugality.
I was hoping you'...Hey there, Femme Frugality.<br /><br />I was hoping you'd comment. Median income probably is not a great metric for measuring total inequality, but it is a heuristic for seeing how the middle group is doing (or, various groups in the middle).<br /><br />That last chart is a tough one to figure, but it's only measuring the poorest 20%'s share of the pie. When you don't have much besides your income, and you have very little room to go 'down' to begin with, I think that may explain why there isn't as big of a dip in that period. <br /><br />But it's just not going to show the pain that the poorest 20% felt, even if their small share of the pie remained static when the pie shrank.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-10535745783632773892017-09-19T10:04:55.701-07:002017-09-19T10:04:55.701-07:00Hi Hannah!
Re: the very top earners, I agree that...Hi Hannah!<br /><br />Re: the very top earners, I agree that it's not necessarily a problem that they're wealthy. In fact, I think it's great. I do like to think about tax approaches and whether the way we tax for things (regressive taxes like sales tax, sin tax, etc) makes a lot of sense within the context of huge income and wealth inequality though.<br /><br />Also agree on social mobility. Though I'd heard some different outcomes on how mobile a society America is these days. If you have a link to that study/article, please share it...would like to write about that potentially.<br /><br />And agree on the role of families, business, & charitable orgs' role. Though I probably disagree on government's role: I do think our governments are foundational in addressing these issues of inequality and economic mobility, especially since so many of our public institutions (e.g. - public universities, or private universities funded with public grants/aid) are the primary drivers for reducing income inequality.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-13388723887583122802017-09-19T09:43:39.008-07:002017-09-19T09:43:39.008-07:00I'm not going to get into the sticky stuff. I&...I'm not going to get into the sticky stuff. I'm pretty sure I've let you know I'm a big believer in income inequality and that the movement that denies it bothers me. Though the numbers in isolation are interesting--especially when juxtaposed with the bigger picture.<br /><br />What's interesting to me--and, quite honestly, something that rings true--is the lack of a huge dip on the "poorest" 20% through the recession. I think the recession definitely had some long-term and horrific consequences for low-income families--the rental market and availability of affordable housing comes to mind first and foremost. But I remember income or job security not being the biggest concern. When your next job is going to pay barely above minimum wage anyways and you're not invested in the market... I wonder if the dip would appear proportionately larger if I zoomed in on that blue line around 2005-2010.Femme Frugalityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07258982361804942329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-5204587515541984782017-09-19T09:35:25.652-07:002017-09-19T09:35:25.652-07:00I read an interesting study that showed that wage ...I read an interesting study that showed that wage inequality is decreasing (thanks primarily to wage increases at the bottom), but the top 20% (and especially the top 10% and top 1%) have seen their income and wealth rise as a result of "rising returns to capital".<br /><br />One way or another, I'm not too concerned with rising inequality of the top 1% because they are either super-mega-wealthy or super-duper-mega-wealthy and it makes little difference to me. (I should say, I don't like that some earn their wealth through cronyism or protectionism from the government, but the fact that they are wealthy doesn't bother me much).<br /><br />On the other hand, I think that general poverty alleviation and "lifetime" social mobility (ie starting in the bottom 20% as a 20 year old and moving up to the middle by 50) matter quite a lot.<br /><br />I saw some good evidence that we're doing well on the lifetime social mobility front both on average and at the bottom, except in cases where the working class becomes the non-working class (due to disability or a sudden lack of employment opportunities). On the other hand, we've not done so well with regards to poverty at least by a lot of figures.<br /><br />In terms of what to do? I advocate that family, business and charitable organizations should pride themselves in giving the personalized help needed for someone to gain the skills and resources necessary to move out of poverty. The Federal/State government should not try to do that, but can consider transfer payments as a form of triage.Hannahhttp://unplannedfinance.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-28160580476593583772017-09-19T08:40:01.679-07:002017-09-19T08:40:01.679-07:00I can guess that it was a man who thought up that ...I can guess that it was a man who thought up that term.<br /><br />While we're at it, why are we still using "Hispanic"?<br /><br />Terrible terminology aside, I do like the fact that government agencies are keeping track of this kind of granular data.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-10248492523091017372017-09-19T08:26:38.585-07:002017-09-19T08:26:38.585-07:00"A similar story is told with female househol..."A similar story is told with female householders with no husband present. (Dear God, they need a better term than that.)"<br /><br />AMEN.Em Capito, LCSWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07690949620210399390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-35065056064828610002017-09-18T11:41:28.230-07:002017-09-18T11:41:28.230-07:00"Things are getting better. They are just not..."Things are getting better. They are just not getting better for everyone at the same rate."<br /><br />Leave it to the first commenter to summarize the findings better than I could. Thanks a lot, Dave. :)<br /><br />I haven't tackled the minimum wage issue but that might be a good one for a future post. While my political bend tells me to support a $15 minimum wage, my inner economist knows that's not a great policy position.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-34647104518345518192017-09-18T11:03:31.389-07:002017-09-18T11:03:31.389-07:00Great information. Things are getting better. Th...Great information. Things are getting better. They are just not getting better for everyone at the same rate. I always find these reports interesting. In my industry, we are facing compression issues due to the increase in min wage.Davehttp://thefinancialjourneyman.com/blog/noreply@blogger.com