tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post7531703025833125435..comments2024-03-27T09:17:51.095-07:00Comments on Done by Forty: When a Million Ain't Enough Done By Fortyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-61404853534139266702016-06-20T15:37:10.834-07:002016-06-20T15:37:10.834-07:00I'm a road warrior, but traveling with kids ca...I'm a road warrior, but traveling with kids can be rough depending on the child. Also, in the US, the lower the cost of living, the more likely you are to run into troubles with the local schools. Heaven forbid your child has disabilities. This all from someone who has definitely not retired, but also doesn't have to pay for child care costs thanks to close proximity of family.Femme Frugalityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07258982361804942329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-36762351640394188412016-06-20T10:08:31.296-07:002016-06-20T10:08:31.296-07:00Thanks, Maverick. That's way higher than I'...Thanks, Maverick. That's way higher than I'd anticipated. But I totally appreciate the real world data point. Thank you!Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-35316617346687327342016-06-19T17:31:31.807-07:002016-06-19T17:31:31.807-07:00Here is a real world example...I recently "re...Here is a real world example...I recently "retired" at 53, and healthcare cost for husband and wife is just under $2,000 a month for employer retiree 85% coverage and about $5,000 deductible per year. ACA coverage is lower rate of $1,400/mo but covers only 60% with much higher deductible. Mavericknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-3900495403187724162016-06-19T01:33:30.629-07:002016-06-19T01:33:30.629-07:00I don't think there are any right answers to t...I don't think there are any right answers to that question, I think you've just got to go with what feels right to the two of you. EcoCatLadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704811319510740473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-25722844242795700372016-06-17T16:14:05.192-07:002016-06-17T16:14:05.192-07:00So many good thoughts there, as always, EcoCatLady...So many good thoughts there, as always, EcoCatLady. <br /><br />-I go back and forth on the renting vs. owning thing. In my mind, I can totally appreciate how renting is better in certain circumstances: if you end up moving frequently due to work or a growing/shrinking family, if your home requires a lot of maintenance, etc. But then, we personally buy homes, so what to make of that? And hey, we are mortgage free...on some levels, we're doing just fine owning.<br /><br />-I watched the video again and you're right: she's not being smug, but angry at the broken dream/narrative.<br /><br />-How we define retirement really is the key. I personally like the idea of not needing to work at all, so then I can do things that maybe don't earn anything (like this blog) without necessarily changing them to being commercial enterprises. But if I were more okay with continuing to work in some fashion, that would allow me to retire with a whole lot less.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-54618301651143754922016-06-17T16:09:59.707-07:002016-06-17T16:09:59.707-07:00I like that the conversation's shifted toward ...I like that the conversation's shifted toward kids.<br /><br />I hear what EcoCatLady's saying: that a lot of parents probably don't have a full idea of what they're getting into. It's probably a lot more time and energy and thought consuming than I can really comprehend now. <br /><br />And while we're planning on having two, there's a part of me that's wondering if just having one might be better. Certainly cheaper and maybe a bit easier, too. But I love having a sister, as does my wife -- we can see both sides.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-52971230680255123422016-06-16T20:22:49.252-07:002016-06-16T20:22:49.252-07:00I didn't want to muddy my original post by cal...I didn't want to muddy my original post by calling out a third dimension, but my wife and I stopped after only one kid. Sort of by circumstance at first but then gradually it became a conscious decision as our son got a bit older and we realized how much more financial capacity we had at our disposal to put into just one (super smart, of course!) kid. <br /><br />Also, with a few exceptions, we don't really care where we live. So part of our retirement plan has become "let's just move wherever our son is, to help with future grandkids". With two or more kids, we'd probably feel a bit trapped into staying where we are (a super high tax state). So not only would we pay higher taxes, but our son wouldn't get the benefit of the HUGE financial advantage of having free childcare and taxi service.<br /><br />BTW, yes I believe buying a house in the best public school district, even if you don't use the public schools, is a solid move in just about every circumstance.Tinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17710280020482764792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-11138182878144028002016-06-16T19:33:36.512-07:002016-06-16T19:33:36.512-07:00I like that. "Leisurely self-employed"....I like that. "Leisurely self-employed". Right now I'm just "work like crazy self-employed", but I did tell me wife that this is my last "regular" job and that next I'm going to work with and maybe expand our real estate investments (passive rental income) as landlord.Tinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17710280020482764792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-63135729704464717522016-06-16T13:59:00.769-07:002016-06-16T13:59:00.769-07:00Love that you're shooting for a big number and...Love that you're shooting for a big number and extra safe withdrawal rate of 3%. Like you said, nothing wrong with knowing where your annual spending should be at for your own situation, and shooting for that number. I think it's rad.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-10174187593698758922016-06-16T13:58:04.044-07:002016-06-16T13:58:04.044-07:00Hey, Latoya. We have a couple very small income st...Hey, Latoya. We have a couple very small income streams from our rentals, and I suppose once we move into our next house, our current house will be a third rental stream. Nowhere near enough to fund our full retirement, but enough to throw off some decent change on a regular basis.<br /><br />I know for some people, that's really the name of the game: multiple passive income streams. We thought that would be us, too, when we started buying rentals. But I think three is the most we can handle.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-89637227087140308612016-06-16T13:56:01.523-07:002016-06-16T13:56:01.523-07:00$50k a year with two kids is pretty awesome, in my...$50k a year with two kids is pretty awesome, in my opinion. For what it's worth, I'm not entirely sure that you'd need $1.75M to throw off $50k annually, maybe just $1.25M...but hey, I'm not a CFP. :)<br /><br />It's hard not to feel some jealousy for people who've done things so well and, at least in my case, a good deal faster than I ever will. I try to keep it on the "they inspire me" tip and avoid jealousy, but I'm not really in control of my emotions most of the time. :/Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-89664756855056399972016-06-16T12:45:47.612-07:002016-06-16T12:45:47.612-07:00I think Tin makes an excellent point about the kid...I think Tin makes an excellent point about the kids question. I'm a fellow Gen X'er, and my early retirement equation would have been completely different if kids had been part of the picture. While financial freedom is certainly not the primary reason I chose to remain child-free, it may have been the thing that pushed me over the edge from 95% sure I didn't want kids to 100. <br /><br />I would never presume to offer advice to anyone on such a personal decision as to whether to have kids or not. But I do think that many people wander into parenthood without a clear idea of the all-encompassing nature of what they're signing up for. I was fortunate in that I got a chance to "test drive" parenthood as a step-mom for a few years with my Ex's daughter. <br /><br />And I don't mean to imply that being a step-mom was a bad experience for me, because in many ways it was a wonderful time in my life. But it did erase any ideas that having children would be in any way "incidental" - once you have kids, your life is about kids, and that's how it should be. I just wish more people knew that going into it.EcoCatLadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704811319510740473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-24586912542931868152016-06-16T12:27:10.697-07:002016-06-16T12:27:10.697-07:00Gosh... so many thoughts here, I'm not sure wh...Gosh... so many thoughts here, I'm not sure where to begin. <br /><br />First of all, I didn't really think the girl in the video sounded smug, what I got from her was anger. I found the fact that she's directing that anger at "the boomers" to be a bit bizarre, but I guess in her case "boomers" is most likely code for "parents" so I suppose it sorta makes sense. And it's hard to blame young people for feeling like society has sold them out.<br /><br />I do agree that the old dream is broken - affordable higher education, pensions, 40 hour work weeks, companies that are loyal to their employees - those are all pretty much things of the past, so I think it's fantastic that so many young people are embracing an alternative path. I'm not totally sure that I agree with her "program" though. <br /><br />Mostly it's the rent rather than own thing that concerns me. I suppose my views on that are somewhat colored by my own experience. I bought a very small home in the cheapest section of town just before the housing boom hit in the mid-1990's - and it's turned out to be the best financial decision of my life. Even at the time, buying was cheaper than renting, but now my very small mortgage is paid off, and my home is worth more than 4 times what I paid for it. To me, that is financial freedom. <br /><br />If I was still renting, I'd be paying over $1500/month for a studio apartment, not to mention all the money I would have flushed down the toilet over the past 20 years. Of course, that equation would be much different if I had bought at the peak of the market, or if I had purchased a big house in a fancy neighborhood. So while I can understand that millennials would have a somewhat jaded attitude toward home ownership, I have to say that the devil's in the details on that one.<br /><br />As to the question: Is a million dollars enough? Well, when I "retired" 10 years ago at the age of 39, I didn't have anything close to a million dollars saved up. What I did have though, was a passive income stream that was earning as much as my salary at the time. In the first few years after I quit my job, my income actually doubled because I discovered that if I put the same sort of effort into my own finances as I had put into my job, I could make a lot of money. My income has gone down now, but that's mostly because I feel pretty secure financially, and I decided that I didn't want to devote so much time to making money.<br /><br />Anyhow, I'm rambling here, but essentially I think that part of the disagreement over how much money one needs to "retire" is because people have radically different ideas about what "retirement" means. I think the traditional idea of retirement is that you sit back and live off of your pension and investments. That would not describe my life at all. <br /><br />Perhaps a better description of this "new dream" would be "leisurely self-employed."<br /><br />Sorry for the long blathering comment, but those are my thoughts!EcoCatLadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704811319510740473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-44911899388245342102016-06-15T12:02:35.517-07:002016-06-15T12:02:35.517-07:00Supremely jealous of those retiring in their 30s -...Supremely jealous of those retiring in their 30s - I didn't even have my head screwed on straight until I was 32 or 33 to even know that I *wanted* to retire early. For us, a million isn't enough, we're actually shooting for 2.7 million before pulling the trigger. It covers our current expenses at a 3% withdrawal rate, then for "unexpected expenses", I added 10% to that number. I also know that our current expenses will be decreasing: no more daycare, and no more mortgage, I'm also assuming those will be taken up by other expenses that I may not know about yet, like healthcare.<br /><br />Could we live on less? - probably. Would we enjoy live as much as we do now? - who knows, but since I feel we're pretty good now, why not shoot for that number?Mom @ Three is plentyhttp://3isplenty.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-41455243942079207492016-06-15T11:41:09.128-07:002016-06-15T11:41:09.128-07:00I'm not sure how much we would need and I can ...I'm not sure how much we would need and I can definitely understand the logic of not knowing for sure your future spending habits. I think one way to help this would be to focus on building a substantial amount of passive income before early retirement...that's about all I could think of instead of focusing on a set dollar amount. I'm interested in knowing more thoughts and this definitely gives me and others something to ponder...Latoya @ Femme Frugalityhttp://www.femmefrugality.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-15278853423779263372016-06-14T17:00:49.862-07:002016-06-14T17:00:49.862-07:00Haters gonna hate.
I love this post. I'm gon...Haters gonna hate. <br /><br />I love this post. I'm gonna come right out and call a spade a spade - those are some jealous boomers. Heck, I'm 30 and I'm super jealous. <br /><br />I've got two kids and our expenses are currently $50K per year - pretty high for us because we are traveling a lot and I've taken up pretty much every expensive hobby there is. Vanguard's nest egg calculator suggests I could retire for 40 years at that spending rate with just $1.75M in the bank, so who knows? <br /><br />I definitely have a LONG way to go to get anywhere close to that, so perhaps one day 20 years from now, I can lose it over some 30-something showing me up :) Em Capito, LCSWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07690949620210399390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-54581792777035985062016-06-14T13:30:48.852-07:002016-06-14T13:30:48.852-07:00In true pop culture fashion, I've somehow forg...In true pop culture fashion, I've somehow forgotten about Gen X.<br /><br />Your distinction of with kids/without kids is a good one. It's a whole nother ball of wax when you consider the ongoing and variable costs that children come with.<br /><br />We plan to be in the "with kids" group fairly soon. As far as setting them up going forward, we have two big priorities that are both education based: one, we plan on moving to a neighborhood with especially good public schools. This will likely happen in a year or less, before we actually have the kids, and has massive impacts on costs since we currently have no mortgage.<br /><br />Two, we plan on saving a decent chunk for each kid's college education, but probably somewhere short of a full ride altogether. Either way, it's a lot.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-69151273841252676232016-06-14T13:26:28.837-07:002016-06-14T13:26:28.837-07:00Love that phrase, from the twelve-steppers, I thin...Love that phrase, from the twelve-steppers, I think. <br /><br />I agree, Tonya, that we would be better off just worrying about our own situation. But we're in a community, too, and there's a part of me that likes having others tell me when they think I'm on the wrong path, and of course feels the urge to do the same for others (for better or worse).Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-46781505471519578822016-06-14T13:24:25.457-07:002016-06-14T13:24:25.457-07:00Right! Kids are an expense that we won't have ...Right! Kids are an expense that we won't have a handle on for another year or four, right before we're thinking of pulling the trigger. And even then, we don't know what middle school, high school, or college year spending impacts the little buggers will have.<br /><br />Long story short: we personal finance bloggers are good at taking our present and projecting it out to the future under a set of assumptions. But because we went so quickly, and because we are generally all young, there are serious potential gaps in our understanding of future costs. Very few early retirement bloggers are writing about how this plan works when you're 10 or 20 years in. Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-18668197350150697902016-06-14T12:58:01.666-07:002016-06-14T12:58:01.666-07:00In characterizing this as Boomer vs. Millennial, i...In characterizing this as Boomer vs. Millennial, it misses the all important Generation X. That also happens to be the generation currently in 40's and early 50's deciding if they need to go all the way to 65 or 70, or stop soon. In short, retiring early is still on the table, but obviously not to the extent of "Donebyforty". I of course am in this Generation X category. <br /><br />For me, the "retire early" wannabes I talk to come in two types. Those who want to do it WITHOUT kids and those WITH kids. The differences between these two groups are significant. As a "with kids" potential retiree, I find the differences to be so significant that I find it is not even worth listening to the "no kids" crowd at all. Maybe that's a bit condescending, but I honestly find they have very little insight to offer me.<br /><br />For me, success is not only retiring comfortably, but ALSO setting my kids up for success as well. That requires a greater time and money commitment that I'm comfortable making. Tinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17710280020482764792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-69540096500631335452016-06-14T06:49:37.707-07:002016-06-14T06:49:37.707-07:00I take an entirely different perspective on it. I ...I take an entirely different perspective on it. I think everyone should just do what they do, but not tell people they need to do THEIR way. We all have different, unique DNA that makes our wants and needs in life totally different. So if a millennial wants to quit working at 25 or 30 and think a million is enough, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Probably not enough for me, but that's me. And the worse thing that can happen is they, OMG, might have to get another J-O-B someday. As far as the bitter comments, I think there might be some truth to what they say, coupled with some jealousy. I think people just need to keep their side of the street clean! Tonya@Budget and the Beachhttp://www.budgetandthebeach.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-2408253839062787502016-06-14T06:41:19.964-07:002016-06-14T06:41:19.964-07:00You make a great point. While I'm sure most e...You make a great point. While I'm sure most early retirees take it into account, many times they throw out the general rule about 20x your spending or something. However, that doesn't take into account future needs, especially kids. Kids don't have to cost as much as most consumer-types make it out to be, but they DO cost a good amount of money. My main obstacle is the high cost of living area where I intend to stay...if you could apply geographic arbitrage, I think a million is fine. Surprisingly many of my co-workers with great pensions still don't think they have enough to retire because they live paycheck to paycheck and can't fathom living on any less.Andrew@LivingRichCheaplyhttp://www.livingrichcheaply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-12974329525920240082016-06-13T22:08:13.022-07:002016-06-13T22:08:13.022-07:00Hey there, FireCracker.
Geographic arbitrage is a...Hey there, FireCracker.<br /><br />Geographic arbitrage is a neat thing, though we do plan on having kids and, at least, want them to go to middle school and high school in the states. But early on in our time as parents, we'd like to spend long chunks of time outside of the US with the future family.<br /><br />Concept of knobs is a good one, too. Lots of choices, if things go somewhat unaccording to plan.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-67273572665466318892016-06-13T22:04:13.430-07:002016-06-13T22:04:13.430-07:00Not long winded at all, and you bring up an excell...Not long winded at all, and you bring up an excellent point. With early retirement, it's very likely that at the beginning of your withdrawal phase that you'll really be managing costs and you'll potentially end up growing the portfolio early on.<br /><br />We focus on downside, even though there's probably more upside.<br /><br />I like that you're going for something greater than the exact amount you might technically need. Nothing wrong with that! And the people you give to will appreciate that, too.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-82213068785061264372016-06-13T21:53:30.554-07:002016-06-13T21:53:30.554-07:00Congratulations on your very early retirement, Tra...Congratulations on your very early retirement, Travis! That's great. And I'll be reading some of your blog to steal secrets on how we can do the same.<br /><br />3% withdrawal rate is awesome: I think the POPs are doing the same.<br /><br />Like you said, if the shit hits the fan bringing in even a little extra income really changes things. That's not something the FIRE calculator can always account for, but when you have such low annual costs it's really a lifesaver. Well done.<br /><br />Congrats again -- keep up the good "work". :)Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.com