tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post8544413575309418783..comments2024-03-27T09:17:51.095-07:00Comments on Done by Forty: Stagnant Wages, Inequality, and Early RetirementDone By Fortyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-16017109077209318982017-06-26T17:15:53.629-07:002017-06-26T17:15:53.629-07:00http://www.epi.org/publication/the-high-road-seatt...http://www.epi.org/publication/the-high-road-seattle-labor-market-and-the-effects-of-the-minimum-wage-increase-data-limitations-and-methodological-problems-bias-new-analysis-of-seattles-minimum-wage-incr/Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-2887051965669638692017-06-26T17:10:48.466-07:002017-06-26T17:10:48.466-07:00https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-26...https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-26/seattle-s-painful-lesson-on-the-road-to-a-15-minimum-wage<br /><br />More lunacy from the left that is pertinent to the conversation - I hope you don't mind.<br /><br />Seattle's minimum wage law gradually increasing to 15/hr has negatively impacted, guess who, low wage workers. Wonderful. Way to go Seattle! Let's have more 15/hr laws so industries will automate jobs and layoff workers at an even faster pace. No need to import low skilled labor after all of us are speaking to robots or tapping buttons on something similar unless they're here just to vote.<br /><br />Let's go with that instead. Have a great day. Dwaynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04059182709343125480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-44571820395282607412017-06-26T16:33:37.769-07:002017-06-26T16:33:37.769-07:00Sure, Dwayne. Whatever you say.
Hope you have a g...Sure, Dwayne. Whatever you say.<br /><br />Hope you have a good day, buddy.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-79890141510816049902017-06-26T16:13:09.841-07:002017-06-26T16:13:09.841-07:00LOL. You were triggered and started ranting while ...LOL. You were triggered and started ranting while accusing me of asking you why you didn't add immigration to the conversation and childishly saying that merely because I added immigration it was weird. Check yourself into a safe place before crying a river of tears over someone merely adding immigration to the conversation.... as if it isn't pertinent to the conversation. Dwaynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04059182709343125480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-37310845616139491782017-06-26T07:36:35.292-07:002017-06-26T07:36:35.292-07:00Hmmm. Seems like someone is upset and ranting, def...Hmmm. Seems like someone is upset and ranting, definitely.<br /><br />Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-11574886232805724542017-06-26T07:33:09.339-07:002017-06-26T07:33:09.339-07:00I wasn't blaming the left for the current disc...I wasn't blaming the left for the current discourse on immigration. I believe the left are interested in immigrate votes and the right are interested in low wage labor. I blame both sides. I referenced Krugman and Clinton to show that the left didn't always speak favorably about immigration. In Krugman's case, just a mere 11 years ago. That seems to have offended you. <br /><br />Your post isn't about immigration, but to get upset over anyone adding immigration to a conservation about low stagnant wages/inequality seems weird. If anyone expands upon your subject matter with related cause/effect topics, you'll lash out with a rant about your post is only a certain number of words and not a book and/or that such is weird? It seems you prefer feedback that matches your ideology and nothing more. Open your mind, because not everyone will post comments that stroke your ego. Dwaynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04059182709343125480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-13199088126541327312017-06-26T00:56:43.791-07:002017-06-26T00:56:43.791-07:00Meh. Seemed like a weird attempt to talk about imm...Meh. Seemed like a weird attempt to talk about immigrants, and blame "the left" for the current discourse on immigration. And it warrants mentioning: the post is not about immigration.<br /><br />Seemed odd. And, yeah, the stuff about the left seemed kind of paranoid from where I sit.<br /><br />But it's a free country and an open forum in the comments. Have at it.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-52427243017490002382017-06-26T00:03:59.224-07:002017-06-26T00:03:59.224-07:00I didn't ask you anything. I pointed out that ...I didn't ask you anything. I pointed out that you didn't mention immigration's effect on wages/inequality and none of the comments did either. I have no idea why you characterize anything I wrote as paranoid or weird, because it wasn't off topic. I'm not angry, upset, disappointed or any other depressing adjective you can think to suggest. I merely pointed out something you didn't think to mention so I took it upon myself to give another perspective to your readers, one perspective I thought to be germane. My hope is that some of your readers find my comment enlightening. I'm always grateful for the opportunity to add to the conversation. Thank you.Dwaynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04059182709343125480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-17813363206790100472017-06-25T23:58:15.373-07:002017-06-25T23:58:15.373-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dwaynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04059182709343125480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-59366849889052945062017-06-25T15:51:11.615-07:002017-06-25T15:51:11.615-07:00What a weird comment: asking me why I didn't a...What a weird comment: asking me why I didn't also write about immigration, some sort of paranoid criticism of the right, and complete with a youtube video of Bill Clinton. <br /><br />I suppose I could apologize for not including any number of subjects adjacent to wages: immigration, public policy, fewer unions, political parties' changing priorities, etc. etc. I chose to include the subjects and research I thought were germane, but it's a blog post: not a book. There's going to be a lot more that doesn't make it into a 1,000 word post than does make it in.<br /><br />And, hey, I can't keep everyone happy, not even Dwayne.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-23256204351028991332017-06-25T15:44:39.080-07:002017-06-25T15:44:39.080-07:00I completely agree, and I have a post in the works...I completely agree, and I have a post in the works on this decision-making that you're describing, and how it's playing out in our own household.<br /><br />One of the main takeaways I wanted to highlight was gratitude, as you noted: FIRE is not a universally achievable goal, in my opinion, though my fellow financial independence bloggers might disagree with me.<br /><br />I think that if we are going to write about retiring at a very early age, giving the full story of how that's achievable (i.e. - having unusually high wages) for most of us, rather than simply highlighting how we cut costs, shopped at Costco and Aldi, cooked more, and poof, we had a million in no time. That narrative is incomplete or, at worst, ignorant of its privilege.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-62564245764903771732017-06-25T10:21:36.148-07:002017-06-25T10:21:36.148-07:00I totally agree with your sentiment here and that ...I totally agree with your sentiment here and that high earners should be grateful, etc. But I also want to point out that there is naturally an upper limit to what home health aides and nannies and house cleaners and all low-skilled domestic workers can earn: it has to be substantially less than what the people paying them earn, or else they'd do the work themselves. Their pay is based on market forces plain and simple, and to a much larger degree than any other type of worker. This is because it isn't corporations or big government deciding what those folks should earn en masse. It's millions of individual moms and daughters (primarily) debating how much it's worth to outsource that care versus doing it themselves. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02911033395758972708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-60501946736627477742017-06-24T08:02:17.561-07:002017-06-24T08:02:17.561-07:00Left something out of my post, Bill Clinton 1995:
...Left something out of my post, Bill Clinton 1995:<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yesvvYEvsDwaynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04059182709343125480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-27598455805401544422017-06-24T07:57:30.008-07:002017-06-24T07:57:30.008-07:00"Immigration reduces the wages of domestic wo..."Immigration reduces the wages of domestic workers who compete with immigrants... We need to reduce the inflow of low-skill immigrants." --Paul Krugman, March 27, 2006<br /><br />"...the benefits of immigration to the population already here are small." --another quote from the same article.<br /><br />https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/03/27/notes-on-immigration/?_r=0<br /><br />Interesting that in a post with "Stagnant Wages, Inequality" in its title immigration's effect on wages was never mentioned in the post or in the comments. Just 11 years after Krugman's article the left have labeled any critical assessment of immigrants effect on the labor market or wages as xenophobia so those on the left are afraid to talk about it. You know, because only those on the right are supposed to be possessed by xenophobia.<br /><br /> Dwaynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04059182709343125480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-61007075784954882242017-05-27T13:57:33.210-07:002017-05-27T13:57:33.210-07:00Thank you so much! That really means a lot to me. ...Thank you so much! That really means a lot to me. :)Piggyhttp://www.bitchesgetriches.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-1710877617121133082017-05-14T14:17:22.554-07:002017-05-14T14:17:22.554-07:00I think that's really cool that your plan is i...I think that's really cool that your plan is involving living with your mom. It's so rare to hear about that sort of situation now, even though it used to be the norm.<br /><br />As you noted, the real downward pressure on home health pay comes from limitations on the pay of regular workers: we can only afford what our budgets allow.<br /><br />Addressing widening inequality will, in turn, also have a positive impact on the wages of those people we indirectly employ/hire.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-61155594115648520902017-05-14T14:04:59.421-07:002017-05-14T14:04:59.421-07:00Thanks, Piggy! I just listened to the podcast and ...Thanks, Piggy! I just listened to the podcast and really loved it. It's so cool to hear the perspective of someone with their heart focused on those who haven't already made it, are already rich/high earners, have everything figured out...Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-53905792042624654262017-05-13T13:50:59.107-07:002017-05-13T13:50:59.107-07:00YES. THIS. ALL OF THIS. But especially the last tw...YES. THIS. ALL OF THIS. But especially the last two paragraphs. Piggyhttp://www.bitchesgetriches.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-90159741740408555682017-05-12T00:37:31.085-07:002017-05-12T00:37:31.085-07:00I think you're right that people felt they had...I think you're right that people felt they had nothing to lose - and they'd just as soon blow up the whole system as be stuck in the status quo. Although I would argue that the problem with the status quo is not Democratic presidents and/or policies, but the stalemate caused by the partisan divide.<br /><br />I guess that's the one good thing to come out of the current political situation. We now essentially have one party rule - Republicans control all three branches of government - so we get to see what Republican policies, unfettered by Democratic restraints, actually look like. It's been interesting so far! ;-)EcoCatLadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704811319510740473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-4458236424552356582017-05-11T09:55:47.976-07:002017-05-11T09:55:47.976-07:00Good point: I'd heard the same criticism from ...Good point: I'd heard the same criticism from the Sanders wing...that we're not talking about economic issues ENOUGH. Just goes to show you're damned if you do.<br /><br />But altogether, my goal is to be a bit more understanding of people who make very different political choice than I do, especially if they're not doing so well. The candidates available aren't going to offer them the same upside that they do to me. For example, Clinton is very clearly a status quo vote: if you liked Obama's tenure you were pretty likely to like Clinton. But if the last 8 years weren't awesome for you, I suppose I can see how a brash outsider with no experience might at least offer you volatility: a chance to change things up dramatically. Again, stealing from Arnade, if you're already at the bottom, volatility is exactly what you want: you have barely anything to lose, and a lot to gain.<br />Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-4212729833709727902017-05-11T02:01:38.415-07:002017-05-11T02:01:38.415-07:00That's an interesting take that I hadn't r...That's an interesting take that I hadn't really considered, but I think you're on to something. I guess I tend to dismiss most of the topics you raised as xenophobia, racism, or bigotry as opposed to a legitimate "interest". I dunno... it's a hard one for me to swallow - must I be tolerant of someone else's intolerance?<br /><br />Of course, I've read several articles criticizing Democrats for focusing too much on social issues like gay marriage rather than the economic issues that were of paramount concern to Trump voters.<br /><br />Either way you slice it, I think it's safe to say that there is a huge cultural divide in this country which seems to trump (no pun intended) all other concerns. And I can't help but think that the moneyed interests in this country are exploiting it for their own gain.EcoCatLadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704811319510740473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-25183555037764499102017-05-10T16:58:47.619-07:002017-05-10T16:58:47.619-07:00I don't know how to organize my thoughts on th...I don't know how to organize my thoughts on this so I will just write whatever... I was a CNA after college when I was searching for a career and thought I might like nursing. I was making $6/h or something like that and got a 25 cent raise (yay!) then Oregon raised the minimum wage to $6.25 so it didn't mean much. I hated the job and quit after 3 months. Flash forward to my father having Alzheimer's and needing 24 hour care. We looked in to hiring a home aide but couldn't afford $10/hr which comes out to $6,720/m so he had to go in a memory care facility for $3,500/m. Huge staff overturn, things go missing, strange bruises, we wonder what goes on there, read lots of stories of abuse. The homes are there to make a profit. Old people die and new ones move in. Medicare doesn't pay for it. The homes that accept Medicaid often have bad reputations. My Dad didn't qualify for Medicaid anyway since he had a modest pension. Are children willing to spend their inheritance on keeping parents alive and comfortable? Often times not plus we couldn't spend all of his assets since my mother still needed to be supported. Many times I tried to figure out how I could quit my job and take care of my Dad but I couldn't watch him 24/7 either and would need help. It's a terribly complicated situation. I totally agree that home health care workers are not paid enough and yet I couldn't afford one at $10/h, 8 hours a day because that would just allow me to sleep and then I would have to watch my Dad the other 16 hours. Now that Dad is gone, my plan is for me to move in with my mother. Hopefully she won't start to wander or burn anything down while I'm at work.Daizyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02508550128007940488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-79900988940669273252017-05-10T11:15:36.406-07:002017-05-10T11:15:36.406-07:00Part of the problem, as Arnade notes, is that when...Part of the problem, as Arnade notes, is that when we talk about "their interests" we on the left are boiling everything down to economics. Your interests are jobs, benefits from jobs or the government, etc.<br /><br />But voters aren't purely economic beings. Social issues matter (a common reason given for why conservatives held their nose and voted for Trump was the Supreme Court and the issue of abortion). And while this is a pretty unsavory thing to bring up, but identity politics played a big role in the last election: white identity politics. The issues that speak to white, middle and lower class voters in Appalachia and the midwest.<br /><br />Anyway, I think the "vote for your interests" thing comes from a Sanders-esque, nearly communist way of thinking that everything is an economic issue when boiled down, and that just doesn't fly with real people who also care about social issues and identity issues.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-63317015476940795622017-05-10T10:36:44.792-07:002017-05-10T10:36:44.792-07:00Count me in the elitist camp too. The great irony ...Count me in the elitist camp too. The great irony of this all seems to me that if you look at the electoral map, there's a HUGE correlation between red states and states that are "net takers" as Tin describes them. I honestly struggle to understand why people consistently vote against their own interests. <br /><br />My step-mom is from Germany, and my dad tells a great story on this topic. They were visiting her family in Cologne, I think this was shortly after the election of George W. Bush. They were at some sort of a family gathering and one of my step-mom's brothers pulled my father aside. Dad thought he was about to divulge some sort of deep dark family secret, but instead he said: "Please tell me, why do Americans always vote against their own interests?" My Dad burst out laughing! <br /><br />I sure wish I knew the answer to that question! Perhaps it's just aspirational thinking, and people have somehow convinced themselves that _____ (fill in blank with immigrants, poor people, lazy people or whatever) are screwing them over, meanwhile the corporations and wealthy are laughing all the way to the bank.EcoCatLadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704811319510740473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2980246226076317453.post-25914102543228858052017-05-10T10:16:31.745-07:002017-05-10T10:16:31.745-07:00Good points, both. Voting for a third party candid...Good points, both. Voting for a third party candidate when there's a demagogue as a major party candidate is very hard to justify. And yeah, I'm a bit of an elitist, too...just trying hard to understand and empathize with these people who went the other way in November.Done By Fortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06246597867355460723noreply@blogger.com